The Mustang Forum for Track & Racing Enthusiasts

Taking your Mustang to an open track/HPDE event for the first time? Do you race competitively? This forum is for you! Log in to remove most ads.

  • Welcome to the Ford Mustang forum built for owners of the Mustang GT350, BOSS 302, GT500, and all other S550, S197, SN95, Fox Body and older Mustangs set up for open track days, road racing, and/or autocross. Join our forum, interact with others, share your build, and help us strengthen this community!

Anyone find a fix for fuel sloshing and starvation?

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

i should have prefaced with i have a 2007 but that being said the coyote has a more advanced PCM. my tuner had no issues with controling fuel pressure. they had it up and running WOT pulls in 30 minutes. no major issues thing runs like a dream.
 
I hate this thread!! (in a good way) makes me realize there is no easy way to get the fuel right just buying something done. Even the fuel cells can starve the system!! look at Cleatus' truck. Is there a turn key finsihed fuel system that just works without a surge tank? The JPC stuff is totally amazing for drag but its all in the Hat and they dont add baffles so i have no clue if it will work with the RR setups.
 
"i swapped to gt500 pumps only thing i had to do was wire in a second fuel pump driver. tuner took care of the rest. ive not had any issues with fuel starvation on track yet. granted ive only got a few events on the new setup but it hasnt been an issue yet. ive run it down to below 1/4 tank at hallet. "

this is what i'm talking about Armorine! The GT500 system with another 'driver' whatever that is (anyone have pics or part numbers?)
 
It should be a little black box in the trunk, the ECM outputs what it wants the fuel pump to do and this module actually controls the pump. That way the ECM doesn't have a lot of current going through it causing excessive heat.

s-l400.jpg
 
So I can report that I have no more issues with fuel starvation at all at my track. Gotta wait for the border to open up to test some faster tracks. First 3 runs went all the way down to almost 1/4 tank and no sign of power loss whatsoever and air/fuel ratio stayed solid.

20200721_113432.jpg

This was after the third run before lunch. Got gas at lunchtime and did another 2 runs without issues. For now it seems to have worked quite well. Ran my best time at the local track as well and it was a very hot day. Very happy with the result.

20200721_132450.jpg

Now I gotta find a way to keep her cool as it likes to get quite warm oil and cylinder head temps. But that's another story.
 
So I can report that I have no more issues with fuel starvation at all at my track. Gotta wait for the border to open up to test some faster tracks. First 3 runs went all the way down to almost 1/4 tank and no sign of power loss whatsoever and air/fuel ratio stayed solid.
Bringing this one back from the dead. Curious how this setup has worked for you. Have you changed anything since original install? You mentioned possibly doing it with another OEM pump. How would that differ from the way you did it?
 
Bringing this one back from the dead. Curious how this setup has worked for you. Have you changed anything since original install? You mentioned possibly doing it with another OEM pump. How would that differ from the way you did it?

So the setup remains the same, this year still no starvation issues, the border is still closed so I have not tried it at the ridge raceway or Seattle. This has worked very well for me. All I tried to achieve was to transfer the fuel from the passenger tank into the fuel hat of the main pump to keep it primed. I did this with just a pump screwed to the level sensor stem. I may eventually rig up an OEM pump in the passenger side tank as the openings are the same and use that to transfer fuel inside the tank rather than externally as it will be a cleaner install but I can report no issues with my setup so I have focused on other things with the car for the time being.
 
75
91
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Langley, BC
I recently ran into this issue on a larger track with 315 square set up and half a tank of gas.

I will be going the route of adding the Radium surge tank as this seems like the best way to go while keeping OEM stuff and will be reliable plus hold up to whatever I'll be able to throw at it long term.

Vorshlag did a nice comparison write up to some options here:

And @captdistraction also provided some very awesome information on his set up.

Here is a link he provided with detailed photos and parts list:

When I do the install, I'll post about it here.

2021-08-26 10_39_35-Radium Fuel Surge Tank Parts List.xlsx - Microsoft Excel Online.jpg
 
So the setup remains the same, this year still no starvation issues, the border is still closed so I have not tried it at the ridge raceway or Seattle. This has worked very well for me. All I tried to achieve was to transfer the fuel from the passenger tank into the fuel hat of the main pump to keep it primed. I did this with just a pump screwed to the level sensor stem. I may eventually rig up an OEM pump in the passenger side tank as the openings are the same and use that to transfer fuel inside the tank rather than externally as it will be a cleaner install but I can report no issues with my setup so I have focused on other things with the car for the time being.
Thanks for the reply. I didn't catch that the transfer hose runs outside the tank. Thought it ran internally. Any reason why the hose could not be routed through the tank internally?

I'm not comfortable with fuel in the cockpit and don't want to build a secondary firewall so was hoping I could rig up a setup just like you did with the transfer hose inside the tang going across the saddle.
 
Thanks for the reply. I didn't catch that the transfer hose runs outside the tank. Thought it ran internally. Any reason why the hose could not be routed through the tank internally?

I'm not comfortable with fuel in the cockpit and don't want to build a secondary firewall so was hoping I could rig up a setup just like you did with the transfer hose inside the tang going across the saddle.

Sorry the hose runs inside the tank currently, I was saying that if I ran an OEM pump I would do the same instead of have it outside like the OEM pumps do.
 
75
91
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Langley, BC
As I promised, a Guideline I wrote up on installing a surge tank to solve slosh issues:
 
Sorry the hose runs inside the tank currently, I was saying that if I ran an OEM pump I would do the same instead of have it outside like the OEM pumps do.
Just wanted to say Thanks to @AdmirC for the 2nd fuel pump idea in post #37 in this thread! I've been getting to the point of having starvation at 3/4 tank on left hand turns.

I did it over the weekend to my S550, used the same pump, but did use a different fuel-submergible line Helix 5/16" x 10 ft. (p/n 516-8410) on Amazon that I used: Amazon link
After doing it, I realize now the "difficult" parts you mentioned. Fishing the line to the other side of the tank wasn't easy, the pass-through must be pretty small. (Also, was surprised to see the fuel level noticeably higher on the drivers-side than passenger side.) This hose is fairly rigid and had some memory from being rolled-up, but I tried to use this to keep it away from the floats. Also, as you mentioned, getting the OEM pump & "cup" down into the hole with the extra hose was fun (the hose has to pass on the flat side of the cup), but I got it all in there!

For the electrical, I had already installed wire to drive a diff cooling pump and fan, and so happens I had routed the wires through the passenger side tank rubber cover, so the electrical was a bit easier. Will be able to test it out in a few weeks. Thanks!
 
6,363
8,189
FWIW, Phoenix has built some incredibly sophisticated tanks to overcome fuel surge. They are expensive but surge is a thing of the past. They use 3 pumps, baffles and several surge tanks.
 
Yeah, definitely looking for the "low-buck" approach. I'm about $120 in for the fuel pump and hose, plus some wire and connectors. I just do HDPE, but I hit the "enough" point last event, and it is costing lap time!
 
Adding a follow-up in case someone else decides to go the extra passenger side fuel pump route... reference post #53 above...

Upon initial install, my max fuel reading was about 3/4, so I was concerned that something was going on with one of the floats, but I knew the pump was installed and working correctly, so wanted to see what happened as the tank emptied on track.

> The troublesome track is a Motorsport Ranch Cresson, when running the 1.7 or 3.1 CCW. With the pump on, no trouble all the way down to about 1/8 of a tank!

While on track the first weekend, the gauge did basically drop to Empty, but never any functional problems, aside from the "X miles to empty" chimes during the session. 😉

I checked both sides again before the next event, and turns out the passenger side float was being affected by the new pump's hose. I was able to connect it to what I believe must be the vent hose which was at the top of the tank toward the rear of the car. After this correction, all normal fuel gauge operation, and no issues with the 2nd pump running. :thumbsup:

(While at a track or direction that I know is not an issue with a half-full or more tank, I don't always turn it on, but glad to have this issue resolved!)
 

TMO Supporting Vendors

Top