Boss 302 consumables new strategy

[13Boss#3328]

Thanks for the inputs!
Will work on my braking style at the track.

 

[2012-Boss]

I usually do not hammer the brakes. I brake a little earlier, build up brake force, and then slowly release. It seams to keep the car more settled.

I have read a lot of debate about which builds more heat, short and hard braking vs longer and lighter, but do not know which ultimately is harder on pads. I brake long and my pads tend to last, so maybe that is my answer.

 

[lbp]

If I ended up keeping the Boss, I will need to change my strategy about consumable, since I am not racing, I would not need top of the line brake pads and rotors + fluids
I am looking for opinions regarding:

1) brake pads that are the same or slightly better than the OEM that can last longer than a typical race pads

2) brake fluid that does not need to be changed frequently but still DOT 4 or above

Other suggestions are welcome
Thanks

I've had good luck with Motul 600

 

[lbp]

Man... so sorry. I've had rear brakes on my mind (just upgraded the rear of mine to GT500)... total brain fart on my part.

Braking technique is one of the hardest things to change. People are set in the way they do it, they get comfortable with it, and it's really hard to get it into their head from the passenger seat. What I usually do is go out for a session or two with a student and see what they are doing. If braking is something we need to work on, we hop in my car (I rarely drive a student's car) and I demonstrate what I want to see / have them try. It's hard to see someone's feet at work... so it's definitely a 'feel' type of learning. Honestly, I learned how to brake by driving a non-ABS car (actually, it was an 86GT that had ABS, but I could turn it off on the dash). Threshold braking gets you that 'feel' really quickly... or else you are out of tire money pretty quickly

You may be right on your driving style comment, but I still think those pads were operating way out of their effective range. Your technique may have contributed to that, but I'd go with a higher temp range pad for longevity... use them to work on your technique and you should be golden. You can always step back down a compound once you feel your braking is improved.

So, what do I teach? I want you on the brakes quickly, but smoothly with firm, not abrupt pressure (aka: Don't stab!). Student last weekend would stab the brakes so hard that I swear the rear tires were coming off the ground. That's not good.

The whole purpose of braking is to? Slow the car in preparation for a turn. You want to slow the car, but you also want to transfer weight to the front tires so that they can do their job more effectively. If you really hammer the brakes, you end up over-loading the front tires and unloading the rear. Makes it hard to turn and accelerate.

Smooth but purposeful onto the brakes, smooth and purposeful off the brakes. Same with the throttle.

I hope that helps. There are some good tutorials on-line, but again, without actually 'feeling' what it is the instructor wants, it can be difficult to pick up.

Break-in is also key for both rotors & pads.

 

[06mach1]

I might get 3 to 4 days out of my front Pagid RST-2's. I am hard on them and they will stop! Before those I used PFC-08's in the front. I still have a slightly used set. They last a lot longer but they do not stop as good as the RST-2s, at least on my car with my style of braking.

 

[F.D. Sako]

Hosetly OP, I don't see a problem with the driving style you described. Basically you're not wasting time coasting. You're either on the accelerator, or brake, which considered "aggressive" for HPDEs, and gives you quick lap times!

If I were you, I'd find a setup that works best for that aggressive driving style, which will prob cost $$$. But since the thread is about conservation of consumables, then you have to do what the F1 drivers are doing nowadays to save fuel lol. Lift early, brake, coast into the turns, grandma style

 

[Senderofan]

Man, another comedian

Lots of things can be contributing here:

1. if you use traction control (full or 'sport'), the system will absolutely eat your rear pads in no time at all. I had a student last weekend that ran TC the second day (when I wasn't in the car). Not only was he slower, he effectively ran the pads (OEM) down to the backing plates in 4 sessions. The rear rotors were blue and I'm willing to bet that the rubber seals on the calipers were probably shot as well

2. Take a look at the pads in the photo. How old were these? Note the paint / rust. I'm guessing this car doesn't sit out in the elements, and that the pads are fairly new (OP says 3 track days). Paint and rust is probably due to excess heat which would lead me to believe that either a) TC was on and killed the pads or b) they truly were out of their effective heat range and that roasted them.

3. the only other thing I can think of is that the pads (somehow) were not properly installed (ie: screwing in the pistons) and that lead to excessive dragging resulting in excessive heat.

Three track days out of a set of rear pads... that's just bad juju.

Sorry Mr. Scheier....When I read the post and responded I was very sleep deprived....it seemed to me that you were saying you had experienced similar wear. I was not trying to be funny....so my apology. I was merely trying to say that I would believe that you, and the other very talented drivers here, could probably wear down a set of pads running on the track. But in doing so...you'd be driving the Boss at its very limits....not from poor brake control. I think our Big Girls like to dance....but at the expense of brakes and tires .

Sorry for my bad....No harm intended...just want to point out that you are one of the talented drivers here....and we need to listen to your advice / experiences.

Take Care,

Wayne

 

[JScheier]

Sorry for my bad....No harm intended...just want to point out that you are one of the talented drivers here....and we need to listen to your advice / experiences.

Take Care,

Wayne

I had a 'wink' in there .... no harm, no foul. FastOldMan gives me WAY more grief than this

 

[Domestic Product]

If I ended up keeping the Boss, I will need to change my strategy about consumable, since I am not racing, I would not need top of the line brake pads and rotors + fluids
I am looking for opinions regarding:

1) brake pads that are the same or slightly better than the OEM that can last longer than a typical race pads

2) brake fluid that does not need to be changed frequently but still DOT 4 or above

Other suggestions are welcome
Thanks

*What other car has your interest that you would sell the Boss ?
*I use Carbotech 12 and 10 with motul 600 , brake ducts installed and dust shields off. Have 5 or 6 days on the pads and they have pad left.

 

[13Boss#3328]

*What other car has your interest that you would sell the Boss ?
The reason I was thinking to sell the Boss is the cost of her monthly payment+insurance+excessive wear and tear items on the track+being addicted to HPDE lol
Instead I was thinking to buy a used NC miata or FRS/BRZ, but boy I know I will cry blood if I sell her so I decided to keep her. She is beautiful and fast!!

*I use Carbotech 12 and 10 with motul 600 , brake ducts installed and dust shields off. Have 5 or 6 days on the pads and they have pad left.
Thanks for the suggestion, I decided to go with Hawk HPS pads with Centric plain rotors (OEM style) the reason is lower price and longevity and accordingly I will take it easy on the track, will try to coast more and be less aggressive.

 

[F.D. Sako]

Be careful with the HPS! Once the pads overheat, they harden and destroy your rotors, which probably why they seem to last long.

I had this problem on a previous car and discussed it with a Hawk rep, which is when he informed me of the overheat/hardening issue, and suggested I go to a full race pad. But I hope they work out for you.

 

[cosm3os]

HPS are a street pad. Probably just above stock. Not track worthy for anyone who'd use up stock pads.

 

[13Boss#3328]

For the whole 2013 track season I used the stock pads/rotors and they worked fine, nothing earth shattering but fine.
I am ok with another "fine" performance from the HPS if they can last like the stock ones.
Having said that, I was taking it really easy on the track last year compared to this year.
Worse comes to worse, I will leave the current setup for street and get myself some track pads/rotors

 

[cosm3os]

For the whole 2013 track season I used the stock pads/rotors and they worked fine, nothing earth shattering but fine.
I am ok with another "fine" performance from the HPS if they can last like the stock ones.
Having said that, I was taking it really easy on the track last year compared to this year.
Worse comes to worse, I will leave the current setup for street and get myself some track pads/rotors

That's a fine plan. You know why this hobby isn't cheap? Cause going faster costs more money and we aren't satisfied if we're not going faster! Most important thing is to have fun.

 

[dabossinnne]

That's a fine plan. You know why this hobby isn't cheap? Cause going faster costs more money and we aren't satisfied if we're not going faster! Most important thing is to have fun.

As the proverbial saying in racing goes, "Speed costs money. How fast do ya wanna go?"

 

[steveespo]

As the proverbial saying in racing goes, "Speed costs money. How fast do ya wanna SPEND?"

Fixed that for you.
Steve

 

[13Boss#3328]

How do you make a small fortune in racing?
Start with a big one ;D

Ok..going back to insanity again..
I was thinking to resurface my stock rotors ( if I have enough meat left in them) and use the centric plain with some track pads and leave the HPS for street...may be

 

[further]

Buy as cheap a rotor as you can, such as the NAPA variety and such.

Use HP+ all around for cheaper, but be easy in the braking zones, especially towards the end of each session.

Go with high quality street tires that last a while.

This will save money, but won't be cheap. You can't track a Boss and be cheap. It's a big, heavy, high HP car that chews stuff up.

 

[Tucson 302]

It's a big, heavy, high HP car that chews stuff up.

Amen!