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Ford Racing Boss 302 Springs...

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I am sure if you were really concerned with what the rates are they would tell you, might have to work for it. Also makes sense they wouldn't want to have their springs rates out there since they have developed them and wouldn't want other companies taking that info and making money off it.
 
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Speaking of rates, does anyone know the motion ratio for the back end of our cars?
Knowing spring rates is only half the battle...
 

Justin

Save the dawn for your dishes!!!
jr said:
Then they limit themselves to the poseurs who just want the car low and don't care about rates.
poseurs??? still a boss specific spring and its stiffer then stock. I am a drag racer and I dont want the car any stiffer just wanted it level to rid myself of the jacked up rear end. The T-Spring is perfect for the DD that just wants to lower the car. If you want to not be a "poseur" you wouldnt be looking at just swapping springs you would go for coil overs.

have some better tact with what you say.
 
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Justin said:
poseurs??? still a boss specific spring and its stiffer then stock. I am a drag racer and I dont want the car any stiffer just wanted it level to rid myself of the jacked up rear end. The T-Spring is perfect for the DD that just wants to lower the car. If you want to not be a "poseur" you wouldnt be looking at just swapping springs you would go for coil overs.

have some better tact with what you say.

Not sure if the original message was intended to be a low blow (and I'm not standing up for the poster either--because I truly don't know).
But FWIW, I agree with him.

For anyone looking to seek to adjust the cars balance, or to address any behaviors which happen at the limit on the track...a person tuning the car must be aware of the resulting wheel rates with a set of springs. Without this knowledge, an analytical person driving at that level would never buy springs without this data. Knowing the amount of drop is one thing (looking to preserve roll center), but rates are a large part of the picture.

That and also it doesn't help that the rear roll center remains constant (even when lowered), but the roll couple shortens :)
 

jr

Race tracks have turns!
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Sorry, not intended to be a low blow. But the purpose of the car is handling, and anything done to it ought to be about handling. Changing a set of springs for appearance sake is not the purpose of the Boss.
Also, lowering it requires matching dampening rates, an adjustable panhard, new lower control arms, and more just to maintain traction. And that's just in the back.
When you start with an already good handling car like this one, modifying just by lowering will result in a worse-handling car. It may feel good in one particular range of the full spectrum, but in other places it will be worse. I'm a racetrack instructor and I've driven a hundred ill-handling Mustangs that students have brought to the track in my 25 years of this.
So when you start with cheap springs where the spring rate isn't even available, you start on the wrong foot.
 
The Boss 302 lowering springs were designed to lower the car and retain stock ride characteristics. Nothing more. Check the Ford Racing website for more info. Look elsewhere for track springs.
 

four-walling

Kerry, San Diego
NFSBOSS said:
The Boss 302 lowering springs were designed to lower the car and retain stock ride characteristics. Nothing more. Check the Ford Racing website for more info. Look elsewhere for track springs.

Thanks for the clear, to the point, succinct answer.
 

REAL 1

Death smiles at everyone. Army Rangers smile back.
I am a newbie at HPDE's but have signed up for the Bertil Roos 5 day school in May. While I don't plan to race in the SCCA or NASA beyond maybe some TT's I expect all I'll really be doing is HPDE's. Just want to hone my skills at driving and driving on the track which was something I always wanted to do.

In my discussions with Sam Strano, he advised starting with the lowering T springs and going from there based on my experience with the car after some track time. He said with the T springs no LCA was needed.

He advised me like some here that braking right now is most important so I upgraded to High temp Motul fluid, Ferodo pads and FRPP racing brake duct kit.

He said I will like want to add camber plates, Watts link and adjustable sways first as I gain experience and then dedicated rubber and maybe Bilsteins or Konis.

As to who is posing and who isn't I guess it comes down to the individual not the fact he has changed to T springs. My 2 cents.
 
REAL 1 said:
I am a newbie at HPDE's but have signed up for the Bertil Roos 5 day school in May. While I don't plan to race in the SCCA or NASA beyond maybe some TT's I expect all I'll really be doing is HPDE's. Just want to hone my skills at driving and driving on the track which was something I always wanted to do.

In my discussions with Sam Strano, he advised starting with the lowering T springs and going from there based on my experience with the car after some track time. He said with the T springs no LCA was needed.

He advised me like some here that braking right now is most important so I upgraded to High temp Motul fluid, Ferodo pads and FRPP racing brake duct kit.

He said I will like want to add camber plates, Watts link and adjustable sways first as I gain experience and then dedicated rubber and maybe Bilsteins or Konis.

As to who is posing and who isn't I guess it comes down to the individual not the fact he has changed to T springs. My 2 cents.

I disagree. I would definitely do At least the LCA relocation brackets. I would also definitely do a shock upgrade, as you mentioned. The rear is dropped quite a bit by the T springs. Even if you're doing HPDEs, you're going to hauling and maneuvering through all those slower Porsche's (as is always when you're in a Boss), and you want your suspension sound.
 

jr

Race tracks have turns!
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It's a minimum requirement, along with an adjustable panhard rod. And in the front you should look at upper strut mounts and end links for the steering rack. And an adjustable torque arm.
This car is designed for a certain ride height, and the associated components are all designed for that height. Including the pinion angle. Any changes to that and you're going to have problems such as loss of traction in the back, and bump steer in the front. You need to approach an improvement in handling as a system.

Are you sure about those springs? This car needs a whole lot more than that... to say nothing about wheels and tires.

I'm an HPDE instructor and have driven my own 20 or so mustangs on the track, along with dozens of student cars. The problem with student cars is that most of them are modified poorly. I can't even count the number of short shifters I've seen that can't even be shifted at speed - and that is if the student can even find the handle at speed. But the worst is lowering - it's almost always done wrong and the behavior of the car shows it.

If you are looking for a vendor to help out, be very careful. Choose one only if they have a long history of modifying cars for HPDE and above. Not just a parts vendor but somebody who walks the walk and talks the talk. There are very few like this...
 

PeteInCT

#LS-378 - So many Porsche's, so little time....
Moderator
2,848
14
Connecticut
I agree with Jr but I would add that it can be done in phases. As for the suggestions and the order of modifications that you received, I believe they are drastically incorrect. I would address the rubber first. additional negative camber with camber plates can also make a significant difference in your car's performance for a relatively low cost. If you do Springs, you probably want to seriously consider LCA's for front and rear. If you do your front LCA's you will also be going to Poly bushings which will significantly tighten up your front end. If you do rear solid LCA's don't forget the relocation brackets and don't believe anyone that says that they're not required. As for the shocks I find the Laguna Seca stock shocks to be acceptableand that a slight step up to something like a custom valve Koni is probably not worth the cost. going to an AST or Penske damper is where you see significant differentiation and performance but obviously at much different price point.

As for the Ferrodo pads, well let's just say you could do better than that if you wanted to.
 
Pete nailed it. Start with rubber, and camber plates.

NFSBOSS said:
The Boss 302 lowering springs were designed to lower the car and retain stock ride characteristics. Nothing more. Check the Ford Racing website for more info. Look elsewhere for track springs.

Then when you move on to suspension I'd go with the Ford Racing P springs instead of T.
 

jr

Race tracks have turns!
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Yes, absolutely, and I didn't mean to imply any order in the parts I listed. Rubber and camber plates. It's very clear that this car needs better rubber, and especially more negative camber up front. And best to put that rubber on a spare set of wheels, both to optimize wheel width and especially so that you don't waste your race tires by driving them on the street.

After this, lowering the car a bit will be a major milestone because it's then that a longer list of other parts will be needed all at once in order to get it right. But I'd still skip the Ford springs, P or T, and go with a serious coilover setup with height adjustability for corner weighting. The stock struts and shocks just don't have the range needed to match the spring rate this car needs. And separately adjustable compression and rebound are important for tuning to specific tracks.
 

REAL 1

Death smiles at everyone. Army Rangers smile back.
Guys: Thanks. Your advice makes sense. Looked at Vorshalg Bilstein package for $1400.00. Shocks, springs and caster camber.

Will go with their LCA and bracket from Whiteline.

Does this route make more sense?

I already have Griggs adjustable pan hard bar.

Thanks.
 

jr

Race tracks have turns!
24
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Vorshlag definitely is the best of the best. And one of the very very few who have the track experience to prove it.
The right double-adjustable shocks/struts will give you multiple adjustments, with room to learn as you explore settings and develop the right settings for your own track. Vorshlag will give you a good set of starter settings and as you learn you can take it form there. you may need an installation place if you're not set for that yourself... but you will definitively need a corner balancing and alignment shop to get it optimized.
These are an investment... it's expensive up front but worth every dollar. Getting the right parts will make a huge difference... the wrong ones won't change enough.
 
^I agree that Vorshlag is a great place.

@Real 1

The bilstein package is a good starter kit. Also, they have Forgestar and D Force wheels in 18x10 that you can get more rubber to the ground. Terry at Vorshlag is really liking the BFG Rivals right now. I haven't used them, but if your talking to Terry he can give you some insight.

I know when I did my car I was going to be doing two events a month. I went with AST 4150 and hyperco springs (f) 500lbs and (r) 250lbs with Vorshlag CC plates. Then Whiteline f&r sway bars, relocation brackets, LCA, UCA, and watts link.
 

jr

Race tracks have turns!
24
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That sounds like a good combo. How is your braking?

The braking on mine absolutely sucks... and biasing up the spring or dampening rates to help it brake better will not help handling. This car needs the IRS with a serious dose of anti-dive geometry. My 2003 Cobra proved the superiority of that kind of suspension.
xIMG_21393.jpg
 

Domestic Product

Big fat tires and everything !
I like Vorshlag, I have their Bilstein package with their camber plates and FR K springs. Very pleased with the car with these mods. Couple other parts as well. Brakes have carbo tech 12s and 10s with motul 600 and FR brake ducts. Car slows down well. Vorshlag is my first place choice for S 197 mods.
 
Budget Boss said:
^I agree that Vorshlag is a great place.

@Real 1

The bilstein package is a good starter kit. Also, they have Forgestar and D Force wheels in 18x10 that you can get more rubber to the ground. Terry at Vorshlag is really liking the BFG Rivals right now. I haven't used them, but if your talking to Terry he can give you some insight.

I know when I did my car I was going to be doing two events a month. I went with AST 4150 and hyperco springs (f) 500lbs and (r) 250lbs with Vorshlag CC plates. Then Whiteline f&r sway bars, relocation brackets, LCA, UCA, and watts link.

Hey Thats my set up and I love it. I will say that I did drive a 2013 with a full griggs set up and it was very sweet. The car had a new set of slicks and performance tuned very fast thru the turns.
 

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