REAL 1
Death smiles at everyone. Army Rangers smile back.
Safest way for sideways fun is a skid pad. It also improves car control.
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GT350 vs GT3 Comparison Video
- Thread starterFlyboygsxr
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- Thread starter
- #22
Flyboygsxr
ADAM
Yes sir, that was one of the highlights driving the GT3...the skid pad was so much fun. They also have a polished concrete course that reinforces the importance of being smooth in all of your inputs.
REAL 1
Death smiles at everyone. Army Rangers smile back.
I learned oversteer control in a "skid car" with Bertil Roos. The entire rear pivots. 
Curious which one @50Deep would pick? 8)
50Deep
Jockin' GT350's
I'm dying to get behind the wheel of a Porsche. I may have to car swap with a P car owner for a daystraightliner1 said:
- Thread starter
- #26
Flyboygsxr
ADAM
The best out of the box track cars in my opinion for under $50k would be a GT350 or a c5/c6 corvette. They may not be the fastest but they are track ready. Just my humble opinion.
I drove a 718 Cayman S and GT3 RS at the Porsche Experience center this past Sat and will update this thread shortly. Track day tomorrow so I’ll have everything fresh in my mind. Cliff notes Driving the RS was a riot!
First let me encourage anyone in the least bit interested in the latest Porsche's to make an appointment to drive one at either the Atlanta or L.A. Porsche Experience. The whole experience far exceeded my expectations and I was able to drive the cars faster and harder than I expected. When I did my launch control runs in the RS I hit at least 115 mph. My son spend a half hour in one of their simulators and got a few hot laps in the RS during lunch. The cars on display were cool and the shop isn't too bad either.
While I have similar impressions of the cars that Adam drove there were some differences for me. The biggest is I would buy a GT3 or GT3 RS and might do so at some point but it will be a used car.
I drove a 2017 Cayman 718 S and 2016 GT3 RS. The Cayman GT4 is out of production so I was not able to drive one and I only drove the GT3 RS and not the GT3. I don't think the tracks are identical so keep that in mind. I had the same instructor for my morning session in the S, for my son's RS demo ride, and my RS drive in the afternoon. He was an experienced SCCA champion and really pushed me sitting in the passenger seat. Several of the other instructors told my son he is the fastest guy there and that's why he gives the demo rides. I fully expected him to keep telling me to slow down but it was quite the opposite. I drove both cars as hard or harder than I drive my GT350 on track with my roll bar, harnesses and helmet. No safety equipment was in either car. He told me part of their job it to help customers improved their driving skills and I appreciated that.
For perspective my 2016 GT350 Track Pack is setup similar to an R with R aero, lighter wheels with 305 square Sport Cup 2's. The wheel/tire package is 10 pounds lighter per wheel compared to 15 on the R. I have camber plates set using FP recommended R settings. I also have the FP lowering springs. I paid sticker for my car two years ago but it's pointless to discuss ADM on any of these cars. I would have loved to have bought an R and was willing to pay $10K over two years ago but didn't find one.
Cayman 718 S:
I was very impressed with this car and it was surprisingly quick. I was amazed on how well balanced the car was and didn't experience any understeer. The steering was light and accurate and body roll didn't seem to be any greater than my GT350 and maybe a bit less. Power from the 2.5L four cylinder turbo was smooth with no big turbo lag and it revved up quickly. The sound isn't that great but it wasn't as bad as I thought. I think this car is about as quick at the GT4 so I wouldn't expect a big difference in performance although I'm sure the GT4 has stiffer suspension. I drove both cars in auto mode and never used the paddle shifters. The PDK in this car was impressive and shifted crisply and mostly picked the right gear for what I needed. There were a few times the car did not shift as smoothly as I would have liked but was 98% spot on. Brakes were excellent as expected but I don't think they were as powerful or felt as firm as the GT350. I did not try launch control in this car. As Adam mentioned in the GT4 I think this car could handle another 100 HP with no issues. If Porsche ever goes all out on the Cayman it will be amazing. This car is also much lighter than the GT350, and the RS, and it was noticeable. Like Adam said it makes you realized that losing weight on the GT350 would be a huge improvement. If you're looking for an outstanding mid-engine sports car experience at a reasonable price this is your ticket. Would I choose the S over my GT350 for street and track use? No. Mainly because of the power. I'd give this serious consideration for a fun weekend sports car though.
991.1 911 GT3 RS:
Wow! The amount of grip this car has is amazing. With speeds up to 100 MPH I'm not sure the aero was adding a lot to the grip but the way the chassis was setup to take advantage of the mechanical grip from the tires was impressive. Note that my car and an R has a larger contact patch than the RS which has 265 tires up front and 325 in the rear. As I already mentioned I two a few runs down the launch control drag strip. This car launches hard, as hard as any car I've ever driven. The amazing part was the car stayed straight as an arrow every time and the launches were very repeatable. The shifts are lightning quick and hard. I drove the car in the mode below the full Track Mode but don't remember what it was called. The shifts felt like a manual but 5x as fast. Truly amazing. IMO the PDK along with the traction control management are the biggest plusses for this car. Porsche has done a great job of dialing them in so that they help you but you don't know it. I did get into ABS a few times but nothing serious. The braking was on par with the GT350 with the Ford having a slightly more aggressive stock pad. But very close. 911's with their weight in the rear are know for good launches and balanced braking. I did notice the RS was more stable braking from high speed but I did not do any braking from about 100 MPH.
The RS accelerates like a rocket from a dead stop. Once you're rolling the PDK shines. With that said I was on track with a RS on Monday, this is the fourth or fifth time I've run across one on track in the past year, and while the RS is a lot faster from a dead stop for reasons already discussed from 60-130 it is only barely faster. Down the front straight at Thunderhill the RS might have pulled me by a car length as most. The GT3's are dead even on the same straight. I don't care what the "instrumented results" state my first hand real world experience is accurate. BTW the guy in the RS was not able to keep up with me. He needs to take some driving lessons. As you can see in the Fastest Laps charts below from Laguna Seca the RS is about 3 seconds faster than the R and after driving the RS I felt that I would be 3-5 seconds a lap faster in that car than mine so that's about right.
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna-seca-post-1988
I drove a 2017 Cayman 718 S and 2016 GT3 RS. The Cayman GT4 is out of production so I was not able to drive one and I only drove the GT3 RS and not the GT3. I don't think the tracks are identical so keep that in mind. I had the same instructor for my morning session in the S, for my son's RS demo ride, and my RS drive in the afternoon. He was an experienced SCCA champion and really pushed me sitting in the passenger seat. Several of the other instructors told my son he is the fastest guy there and that's why he gives the demo rides. I fully expected him to keep telling me to slow down but it was quite the opposite. I drove both cars as hard or harder than I drive my GT350 on track with my roll bar, harnesses and helmet. No safety equipment was in either car. He told me part of their job it to help customers improved their driving skills and I appreciated that.
For perspective my 2016 GT350 Track Pack is setup similar to an R with R aero, lighter wheels with 305 square Sport Cup 2's. The wheel/tire package is 10 pounds lighter per wheel compared to 15 on the R. I have camber plates set using FP recommended R settings. I also have the FP lowering springs. I paid sticker for my car two years ago but it's pointless to discuss ADM on any of these cars. I would have loved to have bought an R and was willing to pay $10K over two years ago but didn't find one.
Cayman 718 S:
I was very impressed with this car and it was surprisingly quick. I was amazed on how well balanced the car was and didn't experience any understeer. The steering was light and accurate and body roll didn't seem to be any greater than my GT350 and maybe a bit less. Power from the 2.5L four cylinder turbo was smooth with no big turbo lag and it revved up quickly. The sound isn't that great but it wasn't as bad as I thought. I think this car is about as quick at the GT4 so I wouldn't expect a big difference in performance although I'm sure the GT4 has stiffer suspension. I drove both cars in auto mode and never used the paddle shifters. The PDK in this car was impressive and shifted crisply and mostly picked the right gear for what I needed. There were a few times the car did not shift as smoothly as I would have liked but was 98% spot on. Brakes were excellent as expected but I don't think they were as powerful or felt as firm as the GT350. I did not try launch control in this car. As Adam mentioned in the GT4 I think this car could handle another 100 HP with no issues. If Porsche ever goes all out on the Cayman it will be amazing. This car is also much lighter than the GT350, and the RS, and it was noticeable. Like Adam said it makes you realized that losing weight on the GT350 would be a huge improvement. If you're looking for an outstanding mid-engine sports car experience at a reasonable price this is your ticket. Would I choose the S over my GT350 for street and track use? No. Mainly because of the power. I'd give this serious consideration for a fun weekend sports car though.
991.1 911 GT3 RS:
Wow! The amount of grip this car has is amazing. With speeds up to 100 MPH I'm not sure the aero was adding a lot to the grip but the way the chassis was setup to take advantage of the mechanical grip from the tires was impressive. Note that my car and an R has a larger contact patch than the RS which has 265 tires up front and 325 in the rear. As I already mentioned I two a few runs down the launch control drag strip. This car launches hard, as hard as any car I've ever driven. The amazing part was the car stayed straight as an arrow every time and the launches were very repeatable. The shifts are lightning quick and hard. I drove the car in the mode below the full Track Mode but don't remember what it was called. The shifts felt like a manual but 5x as fast. Truly amazing. IMO the PDK along with the traction control management are the biggest plusses for this car. Porsche has done a great job of dialing them in so that they help you but you don't know it. I did get into ABS a few times but nothing serious. The braking was on par with the GT350 with the Ford having a slightly more aggressive stock pad. But very close. 911's with their weight in the rear are know for good launches and balanced braking. I did notice the RS was more stable braking from high speed but I did not do any braking from about 100 MPH.
The RS accelerates like a rocket from a dead stop. Once you're rolling the PDK shines. With that said I was on track with a RS on Monday, this is the fourth or fifth time I've run across one on track in the past year, and while the RS is a lot faster from a dead stop for reasons already discussed from 60-130 it is only barely faster. Down the front straight at Thunderhill the RS might have pulled me by a car length as most. The GT3's are dead even on the same straight. I don't care what the "instrumented results" state my first hand real world experience is accurate. BTW the guy in the RS was not able to keep up with me. He needs to take some driving lessons.
As you can see in the Fastest Laps charts below from Laguna Seca the RS is about 3 seconds faster than the R and after driving the RS I felt that I would be 3-5 seconds a lap faster in that car than mine so that's about right.http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna-seca-post-1988
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Continuing on with the RS:
I've driven a McLaren MP4-12 at Laguna Seca and I think that car is quicker from 60-130 but doesn't have the grip of either the RS or R (my car).
Where the RS really shined in my mind was the car in transitions where it stayed very flat and didn't exhibit much if any body roll. Same for brake dive on hard braking. My GT350 definitely moves around more. I felt the steering was much more precise with more feedback than my car and I felt I could be much more precise in my placement of the car compared to mine especially at speed. I could make minor mid-corner adjustments with easy and it seemed I could never upset the chassis or balance.
After my slick track experience in both cars it became very obvious the weight of the RS hanging out beyond the rear axle. It was easy to control and actually easier to drift than the Cayman. I think it would be easy to look like Chris Harris drifting a GT3 RS around a track. And there's the other difference, the RS feels lighter and smaller than the GT350. If Ford or owners could pull 200 lbs out of the GT350 I think it would really help. It is and would still feel larger thought.
So in the end there's no doubt the RS is faster, no big surprise there, but the PDK, traction control, and overall nannies making the biggest difference. I think the only reason a regular GT3 is faster around track than an R is the PDK. Even Porsche states that the PDK is faster than a manual. I would love to have a PDK type tranny in my GT350 for track use. I'd still prefer a manual for a sports car on the street.
What I was worried about was tracking my car two days after driving the Porsche's. Would my GT350 feel like an ancient dinosaur or a big pig on track? While there is definitely a difference between the cars and I'd pick the GT3 RS, or even a GT3, all day long the difference on track wasn't as big as you might imagine and the GT350 fares well. So while I'd love to own a GT3 I'm quite content to drive my GT350 for a few more years.
@moto
@Tob
@Flyboygsxr
I've driven a McLaren MP4-12 at Laguna Seca and I think that car is quicker from 60-130 but doesn't have the grip of either the RS or R (my car).
Where the RS really shined in my mind was the car in transitions where it stayed very flat and didn't exhibit much if any body roll. Same for brake dive on hard braking. My GT350 definitely moves around more. I felt the steering was much more precise with more feedback than my car and I felt I could be much more precise in my placement of the car compared to mine especially at speed. I could make minor mid-corner adjustments with easy and it seemed I could never upset the chassis or balance.
After my slick track experience in both cars it became very obvious the weight of the RS hanging out beyond the rear axle. It was easy to control and actually easier to drift than the Cayman. I think it would be easy to look like Chris Harris drifting a GT3 RS around a track.
And there's the other difference, the RS feels lighter and smaller than the GT350. If Ford or owners could pull 200 lbs out of the GT350 I think it would really help. It is and would still feel larger thought. So in the end there's no doubt the RS is faster, no big surprise there, but the PDK, traction control, and overall nannies making the biggest difference. I think the only reason a regular GT3 is faster around track than an R is the PDK. Even Porsche states that the PDK is faster than a manual. I would love to have a PDK type tranny in my GT350 for track use. I'd still prefer a manual for a sports car on the street.
What I was worried about was tracking my car two days after driving the Porsche's. Would my GT350 feel like an ancient dinosaur or a big pig on track? While there is definitely a difference between the cars and I'd pick the GT3 RS, or even a GT3, all day long the difference on track wasn't as big as you might imagine and the GT350 fares well. So while I'd love to own a GT3 I'm quite content to drive my GT350 for a few more years.
@moto
@Tob
@Flyboygsxr
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