Has anyone done the Magnum XL swap and regretted it?

[EF1]

That is where I ended up with mine as well. Did you end up using the round pins or was that with the offsets? I used brake cleaner on a blue shop paper towel to wipe down all surfaces of mine included the cerametallic disk. It should be okay on the organic material, just don't soak it. I would spray it on a paper towel or clean rag and give it a quick wipe down. It evaporates fast enough where it can't really soak in.

 

[cgornowich]

That is where I ended up with mine as well. Did you end up using the round pins or was that with the offsets? I used brake cleaner on a blue shop paper towel to wipe down all surfaces of mine included the cerametallic disk. It should be okay on the organic material, just don't soak it. I would spray it on a paper towel or clean rag and give it a quick wipe down. It evaporates fast enough where it can't really soak in.

Hey Eric,
Those last measurements were with the round pins. Seems I didn't really need the offsets either. I think our kits are very similar, except you have ceramic friction discs and I have organic ones. Did you use the spacer they shipped that fits under the Slave Cylinder? If so, how far off the floor is your clutch when it engages? I've tried to do the math to make sure I don't end up with a clutch pedal on the floor again, but I'm struggling with the correct answer.

 

[EF1]

There are two different TOB's that fit the S197. A short and a long one the spacer may or may not be needed depending on which one you have. My kit did not come with or require a spacer. My original MT82 did have a factory spacer since it was a 2011. Did you measure the distance from the face of the bell housing to the clutch fingers and compare it to the distance from the front of the trans to the TOB to make sure you have the proper preload on the TOB? You should have .5" to .625" more on the second measurement

 

[EF1]

The way Geoff at Mantic USA explained it to me the spacer is just to set the preload on the TOB to make sure it does not over extend. It does not affect engagement point. The engagement point and abruptness of grabbing has to do with the amount of cushion in the disks. Flat disks without any cushion will be very on/off.

 

[cgornowich]

There are two different TOB's that fit the S197. A short and a long one the spacer may or may not be needed depending on which one you have. My kit did not come with or require a spacer. My original MT82 did have a factory spacer since it was a 2011. Did you measure the distance from the face of the bell housing to the clutch fingers and compare it to the distance from the front of the trans to the TOB to make sure you have the proper preload on the TOB? You should have .5" to .625" more on the second measurement

I'm going to have to take some time and figure out how to measure from the face of the bellhousing to the clutch fingers. Hmmmm.

 

[cgornowich]

That is where I ended up with mine as well. Did you end up using the round pins or was that with the offsets? I used brake cleaner on a blue shop paper towel to wipe down all surfaces of mine included the cerametallic disk. It should be okay on the organic material, just don't soak it. I would spray it on a paper towel or clean rag and give it a quick wipe down. It evaporates fast enough where it can't really soak in.

Here's the final (4th times the charm) alignment of the bellhousing. The number under the gauge is also 0.008" and that's good enough for me. With the supercharger there's no need to rev her past 6k RPM,,,

The last picture is where I stopped this evening. The clutch is bolted onto the flywheel, just not run all the way in. Those blocks keep riding up on the ridge and holding the pressure plate back, so it's slow going. But the instruction say 1/2 turn at a time in a star pattern.... I'm following the instructions on this clutch install....

 

[EF1]

To check bearing compression on a one piece bell housing and transmission

A
BC

Measure Distance A from the engine block to the flat on the clutch cover
Subtract Distance B from A, This ( D ) is the Finger height in relation to the block Measure distance C from the Engine Block Flange to the face of the bearing on CSC.
( Leave the CSC EXTENDED, just as it sits ) Distance C must be .500-.725 LESS than D

 

[EF1]

I sent you a PM.

 

[cgornowich]

To check bearing compression on a one piece bell housing and transmission
View attachment 85472
A
BC
View attachment 85473
Measure Distance A from the engine block to the flat on the clutch cover
Subtract Distance B from A, This ( D ) is the Finger height in relation to the block Measure distance C from the Engine Block Flange to the face of the bearing on CSC.
( Leave the CSC EXTENDED, just as it sits ) Distance C must be .500-.725 LESS than D

On mine, the distance C is actually .250". I think I need a spacer of .500"

 

[EF1]

On mine, the distance C is actually .250". I think I need a spacer of .500"

It sounds like you need to shim it up. How thick is the spacer that came with your clutch and are those measurements with or without it?

 

[cgornowich]

It sounds like you need to shim it up. How thick is the spacer that came with your clutch and are those measurements with or without it?

The shim that came with the kit is 4 MM or 0.157". The explanation of measurements is more difficult, so for the purpose of our discussion, I'll use the end of the bellhousing (where the transmission bolts up to the bellhousing) as my frame of reference. With the clutch installed (and tightened down), and the bellhousing installed, the clutch fingers are recessed 3.35". Now, over at the transmission with the CSC installed and extended, the face of CSC is 3.45" off the face of the transmission (again, where it bolts to the bellhousing). With the CSC collapsed, this measurement is roughly 2.500". So I was thinking a .500 spacer would be the best bet. I think a .750 spacer would be too much.

Thoughts?

 

[cgornowich]

The shim that came with the kit is 4 MM or 0.157". The explanation of measurements is more difficult, so for the purpose of our discussion, I'll use the end of the bellhousing (where the transmission bolts up to the bellhousing) as my frame of reference. With the clutch installed (and tightened down), and the bellhousing installed, the clutch fingers are recessed 3.35". Now, over at the transmission with the CSC installed and extended, the face of CSC is 3.45" off the face of the transmission (again, where it bolts to the bellhousing). With the CSC collapsed, this measurement is roughly 2.500". So I was thinking a .500 spacer would be the best bet. I think a .750 spacer would be too much.

Thoughts?

Oh, and these measurements are WITHOUT the thin 0.157" shim installed...

 

[EF1]

Oh, and these measurements are WITHOUT the thin 0.157" shim installed...

I am a little confused on your measurements. When you say the clutch fingers are recessed are you referring to the distance from the block to the back of the fingers or from the back of the bell housing to the clutch fingers? Also, you say the CSC is 3.45" off the front of the trans. These measurements should both be from the front of the bell housing. You want the front of the CSC to be closer to the front of the bell housing than the the fingers so it compresses as the transmission is slid into place.

 

[EF1]

Okay, I think I understand how you measured after thinking about it. Everything I have seen measures from the back of the engine (front of the bell housing) which is how I did mine. Measuring from the back of the bell housing should work in theory as well as long as you measure both from the same point of reference. It should work and yes, it sounds like you need a 1/2" spacer.

 

[EF1]

There is a lot of good information on measuring and installing here:

Instructions

Install instructions for all Mantic Clutch USA kits including single disc, twin, triple and quad disc clutch kits. Step by step for proper installation including measurements, cleaning, bolt torque specs and assembly.

manticclutchusa.com

 

[cgornowich]

There is a lot of good information on measuring and installing here:

Instructions

Install instructions for all Mantic Clutch USA kits including single disc, twin, triple and quad disc clutch kits. Step by step for proper installation including measurements, cleaning, bolt torque specs and assembly.

manticclutchusa.com

This really is great information, and exactly what I needed. Also, I emailed the team from Mantic last night, and they responded quickly. It looks like everything is point towards a 1/2" spacer is the solution. I can't help but wonder what a 3/4" spacer would do.....

Anyway, here's their response:

Hi Charles

The bearing travel we use in-house to test this particular kit is 10mm.

There are certain methods online to measure the amount of pre-load required for correct operation.

Here are just a few sites to give you an idea:

https://malwoodauto.com.au/tips-when-fitting-a-clutch-using-a-concentric-slave-cylinder/
http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?156209-Measuring-crush-on-slave-cylinder

Keep in mind, the CSC will only throw the amount of fluid displaced by the master cylinder.

Regards

From: Sales <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2023 11:22 AM
To: Engineering <[email protected]>
Subject: FW: Mantic Order #100001618


From: charles gornowich <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2023 11:11 AM
To: Sales <[email protected]>
Subject: Mantic Order #100001618

Hello,

I have a technical question about installing the clutch I ordered, a 9000 series with dual organic discs. The receipt is attached for your reference.

I have a 2008 Saleen Mustang with a 4.6 modular motor. I've replaced the original 5-speed transmission with a Tremec T56 Magnum and a Quicktime bellhousing. I think I have to shim my CSC (clutch slave cylinder) more than the 4mm that came in the kit. How far should the CSC push on the clutch fingers to completely disengage the clutch?

Currently the CSC only has 1/4" (roughly 6 mm) of travel left to press against the clutch fingers, at which point it is completely extended. I don't think this is sufficient to complete the travel of the clutch fingers. I have two options:

a. CSC spacer of 1/2" (almost 13 mm) or,
b. CSC spacer of 3/4" (slightly more than 19 mm).

Which would be best for my application?

 

[EF1]

This really is great information, and exactly what I needed. Also, I emailed the team from Mantic last night, and they responded quickly. It looks like everything is point towards a 1/2" spacer is the solution. I can't help but wonder what a 3/4" spacer would do.....

The information available from Mantic USA is good. The President of Mantic USA, Geoff Gerko is a mechanical engineer by trade and worked for one of the big clutch companies before becoming the US distributor for Mantic. The illustration I posted on how to measure CSC preload came directly from his installation manual for my car. The video that explains the CSC operation really helps understand how it works. He also has an alternate measuring method listed now that looks like how you measured yours. When I bought my clutch, Geoff was low on stock and had everything drop shipped from Mantic in Australia except for the CSC. He sent it from North Carolina to make sure I had exactly what I needed.

He was very helpful in explaining things and correcting some misconceptions I had in what determines engagement point and feel. This was done through email, text, and voice calls. Some of this was even done outside of business hours including weekends. I can't say enough about the service I received from Mantic USA.

If I am reading your numbers correctly you have .10" preload without a spacer. The spacer that you received is .157" for a total of about a 1/4" which isn't enough. Based on everything I have seen you want at least .50". I have seen high specs anywhere from .625" to .750" from Mantic USA depending on which document you are referencing. I would get a 1/2" spacer and you'll end up with .60" total preload, which is right in the middle of the acceptable range. A 3/4" spacer would put you at .85" total preload, which is outside the acceptable ranges I have seen.

 

[cgornowich]

The information available from Mantic USA is good. The President of Mantic USA, Geoff Gerko is a mechanical engineer by trade and worked for one of the big clutch companies before becoming the US distributor for Mantic. The illustration I posted on how to measure CSC preload came directly from his installation manual for my car. The video that explains the CSC operation really helps understand how it works. He also has an alternate measuring method listed now that looks like how you measured yours. When I bought my clutch, Geoff was low on stock and had everything drop shipped from Mantic in Australia except for the CSC. He sent it from North Carolina to make sure I had exactly what I needed.

He was very helpful in explaining things and correcting some misconceptions I had in what determines engagement point and feel. This was done through email, text, and voice calls. Some of this was even done outside of business hours including weekends. I can't say enough about the service I received from Mantic USA.

If I am reading your numbers correctly you have .10" preload without a spacer. The spacer that you received is .157" for a total of about a 1/4" which isn't enough. Based on everything I have seen you want at least .50". I have seen high specs anywhere from .625" to .750" from Mantic USA depending on which document you are referencing. I would get a 1/2" spacer and you'll end up with .60" total preload, which is right in the middle of the acceptable range. A 3/4" spacer would put you at .85" total preload, which is outside the acceptable ranges I have seen.

Both the 1/2" and the 3/4" spacer arrived this afternoon, so once the workday is done, I'll be back in the garage and "back at it". Based on all this information, I'm planning on using the 1/2" spacer, but I do want to measure the whole set-up ONE MORE TIME..... Just to be sure.

 

[EF1]

I checked with Geoff at Mantic USA. He confirmed 1/2” spacer with your measurements. He said 3:4” is too much and you risk inner tube on slave contacting outer disk.

 

[cgornowich]

Awesome, thanks Eric. I came to the same conclusion after re-measuring a few minutes ago. I've cleared most of my weekend (just gotta help my wife plant a few things in her garden, two hours, max) and should have the car drivable Sunday afternoon. I'll let ya'll know how it goes.