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Has anyone swapped in a Jerico/G Force trans?

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Fabman

Dances with Racecars
6,518
8,154
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
They both have enough injector and coil drivers to sequentially control each cylinder, so that's the same. They both have a good number of analog and digital inputs and outputs, as well as CAN Bus connectivity. That said, in my experience with standalones one of the main things that sets the better ones apart is the flexibility and ability to use certain input data to manipulate outputs in a sophisticated manner. And this comes down to the use case. So it really depends on what you want to do. Nowadays with CAN integration the possibilities have grown exponentially in theory, but in practice it comes down to how well the various modules on your CAN system integrate. Also with PDM's, which are on the CAN as well the possibilities get overwhelming. So an intuitive user interface should also be a big factor in the decision IMO. Take a look at the Haltech R5 as well, since it has a PDM built into the ECU. One less pair of critical components to integrate, especially from different manufacturers.

So I'd think about all the functionality you might want (engine control, traction control, ABS, PDM, data logging, etc), and what the most complicated type of control strategies you can imagine using within and between these systems. Then discuss with the technical teams of any standalone manufacturer you're considering and see if they can do it, and do it intuitively. Not only for systems control but also for failsafes. Think of complex failsafes you might want that say require 3 inputs (maybe one is digital, one analog, and one from a different module on the CAN network) to be within certain ranges and if so then they modify XYZ output in a certain way per gear, or to switch you to a limp mode, or to trigger your battery disconnect to shut down the car, etc. Luckily you are not boosted and don't have a gen3 coyote (dual fuel) so that removes a lot of complexity, but still if you start dreaming up nice to haves it can get pretty complex pretty quickly.
That's why I was considering just face plating the tremec. Not as spiffy, but cheaper and simpler.
In the end, I did nothing. Yay me.
 
You could pick up a T101A box for probably 2500$ these days. For a track only car, it would be awesome. I have used these trans in other vehicles and they are a dream compared to synchro trans. Makes you never want to use synchros again lol.

As far as the output sensor, you would have to figure out a way to attach it to the yoke or pinion flange. I don't know what the OE sensor is , but it shouldn't be that difficult to replicate. Though it may need some programming / calibration.

This would be used for traction control and possibly a few other things in the ECU. For a track car if you aren't using that, may be able to tune it out. Would have to check with a tuner on that one though as well as calibrating a trigger unless you could somehow use the factory trigger wheel.
 
So following is hearsay so take it with a grain of salt. My personal standalone experience was most recently 15yrs ago so a lot has changed since then.

I know a couple people who have used multiple standalones who can vouch for Link as a decent system. That said, on the hierarchy they are reportedly not on the same plane as Haltech, and Motec as usual is top of the heap. Motec if money is no object, but functionality wise at least in the past Haltech's top tier ecu's had about 90% of the capability for about 50% the cost. I'd take a look and talk with the guys there as well. I used to work closely with Haltech and the depth of knowledge there was always astounding.
Think about tunability as well. Everyone tunes Motec... It really isn't THAT much more money once you are going all in anyways. For 10x the support, its something to think about..

I went with Emtron for my build, and I must say their customer support for a dummy like myself has been absolutely top notch. If you are serious, I would look into them as well.
 
The Bowler interface box that one has to use to make the T56 Magnum VSS work with the stock ECU should have enough flexibility to take any VSS input you could build easily on a Jerico and send it to the stock ECU in a format it was expecting.

DaveW
 
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When I bought my fr500c off rehagen dean had 1 spare trans was t56 done by liberty clutch less. He rented the car to nascar team to practice at watkins glen they required jerico type trans.
From using clutch all the time it really takes time to not use it and blip and shift !
I had a cobra automotive toploader with jerico guts in my old car ( dean Gregson 69/70 boss 302 t/a car)
I still can't figure out why you guys call 5th and 6th useless gears.
4.10 rear gear 5th 5800 rpm back straight at watkins glen I'm hitting 147 mph. And thats short shifting 4th .I'm planning on going to 4 30 soon.
Chris
 
Man watching videos of dudes ripping around with sequential dog boxes has me all hot and bothered.

You gotta be damn good downshifting to do it smoothly with a dog box so maybe auto blip and hold functionality is worth considering for a standalone as well Kevin.
 
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You could pick up a T101A box for probably 2500$ these days. For a track only car, it would be awesome. I have used these trans in other vehicles and they are a dream compared to synchro trans. Makes you never want to use synchros again lol.

As far as the output sensor, you would have to figure out a way to attach it to the yoke or pinion flange. I don't know what the OE sensor is , but it shouldn't be that difficult to replicate. Though it may need some programming / calibration.

This would be used for traction control and possibly a few other things in the ECU. For a track car if you aren't using that, may be able to tune it out. Would have to check with a tuner on that one though as well as calibrating a trigger unless you could somehow use the factory trigger wheel.

Think about tunability as well. Everyone tunes Motec... It really isn't THAT much more money once you are going all in anyways. For 10x the support, its something to think about..

I went with Emtron for my build, and I must say their customer support for a dummy like myself has been absolutely top notch. If you are serious, I would look into them as well.

I looked around - the obviously places on the internet are running 4500-6K a box. Not sure you can find one for 2500 anymore. But maybe I'm not looking in the right spot?

This is a good point about tuning ability. I've reached out to a couple tuners I'm comfortable with to see what they are familiar with.

The Bowler interface box that one has to use to make the T56 Magnum VSS work with the stock ECU should have enough flexibility to take any VSS input you could build easily on a Jerico and send it to the stock ECU in a format it was expecting.

DaveW

I reached out to Bowler and they said it wouldn't work. They said it's only programmed for the T56. The T56 uses a 2 wire sensor and the drive shaft speed sensors I'm finding are 3 wires with 8, 16, and 32 teeth rings. The TR3160 has 12 teeth. Bowler said the Ford ECUs typically want 36 pulses, so I'd assume some type of conversion is needed.

Man watching videos of dudes ripping around with sequential dog boxes has me all hot and bothered.

You gotta be damn good downshifting to do it smoothly with a dog box so maybe auto blip and hold functionality is worth considering for a standalone as well Kevin.
I originally had planned to do the 6XD sequential, but cost is holding me back. It'll eat into some other important upgrades and I'm just not sure it's worth the effort. Plus, I know I'll miss the H-pattern. One bonus of the GSR is that I could drop it into a Daytona Coupe kit car if I upgrade to a sequential later.
 
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They both have enough injector and coil drivers to sequentially control each cylinder, so that's the same. They both have a good number of analog and digital inputs and outputs, as well as CAN Bus connectivity. That said, in my experience with standalones one of the main things that sets the better ones apart is the flexibility and ability to use certain input data to manipulate outputs in a sophisticated manner. And this comes down to the use case. So it really depends on what you want to do. Nowadays with CAN integration the possibilities have grown exponentially in theory, but in practice it comes down to how well the various modules on your CAN system integrate. Also with PDM's, which are on the CAN as well the possibilities get overwhelming. So an intuitive user interface should also be a big factor in the decision IMO. Take a look at the Haltech R5 as well, since it has a PDM built into the ECU. One less pair of critical components to integrate, especially from different manufacturers.

So I'd think about all the functionality you might want (engine control, traction control, ABS, PDM, data logging, etc), and what the most complicated type of control strategies you can imagine using within and between these systems. Then discuss with the technical teams of any standalone manufacturer you're considering and see if they can do it, and do it intuitively. Not only for systems control but also for failsafes. Think of complex failsafes you might want that say require 3 inputs (maybe one is digital, one analog, and one from a different module on the CAN network) to be within certain ranges and if so then they modify XYZ output in a certain way per gear, or to switch you to a limp mode, or to trigger your battery disconnect to shut down the car, etc. Luckily you are not boosted and don't have a gen3 coyote (dual fuel) so that removes a lot of complexity, but still if you start dreaming up nice to haves it can get pretty complex pretty quickly.
Forgot to reply to this directly. This is a really good starting point. Thank you. I think i'll start to think through this and then create a separate post to ask the community for some feedback on what I come up with.
 
I originally had planned to do the 6XD sequential, but cost is holding me back. It'll eat into some other important upgrades and I'm just not sure it's worth the effort. Plus, I know I'll miss the H-pattern. One bonus of the GSR is that I could drop it into a Daytona Coupe kit car if I upgrade to a sequential later.

I believe it is @navseng that mentioned in another thread that he went with an HGT dog box. Their 6spd sequential looks amazing and is about half the price of a 6xd and lighter too. Maybe worth a looksee.
 
I believe it is @navseng that mentioned in another thread that he went with an HGT dog box. Their 6spd sequential looks amazing and is about half the price of a 6xd and lighter too. Maybe worth a looksee.
It seems like one of he best bang for the buck you can get.. As far as a sequential goes anyways.. I haven't track proven it yet but I spoke with a few guys who had great things to say about it.. Figure about 15k landed in the states by the time you get shifter and strain gage.

The 6xd was one of the first ones I was looking at because it would literally bolt right in and use the same driveshaft. The HGT also bolted right in (muncie pattern bellhousing much like any Nascar of the nascar trans),but it required a driveshaft with a flange on the output instead of a slip yoke. I don't like how the 6xd is around 125 lbs too. It is extremely beefy, but I am not running some twin turbo v8 and ninja kicking a 4 disc tilton like a lot of those drift guys are... HGT is 86 lbs , so almost 40 lbs lighter
 

Fabman

Dances with Racecars
6,518
8,154
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Be great if someone offered a total bolt in solution.
I think next to cost, complexity is the main reason people don’t go with the sequential. Some smart retailer should seriously think of assembling a moderately priced, easy to install kit.
 
Be great if someone offered a total bolt in solution.
I think next to cost, complexity is the main reason people don’t go with the sequential. Some smart retailer should seriously think of assembling a moderately priced, easy to install kit.
HGT has a coyote bellhousing, so it would be pretty bolt in as far as that goes. You would need to figure out a drive shaft and mount the shifter.


In my opinion it would be best do do a tilton or other low MOI clutch with the box as well.
 
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Fabman

Dances with Racecars
6,518
8,154
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
HGT has a coyote bellhousing, so it would be pretty bolt in as far as that goes. You would need to figure out a drive shaft and mount the shifter.


In my opinion it would be best do do a tilton or other low MOI clutch with the box as well.
Looks sexy but I noticed there isn’t any pricing on the website…I guess that means I can’t afford it. 😢
But….I want it. :p
 
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THanks for keeping this going guys, I'm on a mission to see if I can put together a relatively "plug and play" package for racers. I've engaged Xineering as well. Max seems interested.


It seems like one of he best bang for the buck you can get.. As far as a sequential goes anyways.. I haven't track proven it yet but I spoke with a few guys who had great things to say about it.. Figure about 15k landed in the states by the time you get shifter and strain gage.

The 6xd was one of the first ones I was looking at because it would literally bolt right in and use the same driveshaft. The HGT also bolted right in (muncie pattern bellhousing much like any Nascar of the nascar trans),but it required a driveshaft with a flange on the output instead of a slip yoke. I don't like how the 6xd is around 125 lbs too. It is extremely beefy, but I am not running some twin turbo v8 and ninja kicking a 4 disc tilton like a lot of those drift guys are... HGT is 86 lbs , so almost 40 lbs lighter

I submitted an enquiry. Thanks for the lead. Do you have any details on the electronics side of things? I saw a mention of a speed sensor accessory in the documentation, but little documentation beyond that.

Be great if someone offered a total bolt in solution.
I think next to cost, complexity is the main reason people don’t go with the sequential. Some smart retailer should seriously think of assembling a moderately priced, easy to install kit.

I'm going to see if I can get someone to put together a package. It would be great to get something that was somewhat affordable and played well with Ford ECUs. Every tuner I've talked to recommended I keep the Ford ECU, so going to pursue that path for as long as I can.
 
HGT has a coyote bellhousing, so it would be pretty bolt in as far as that goes. You would need to figure out a drive shaft and mount the shifter.


In my opinion it would be best do do a tilton or other low MOI clutch with the box as well.

definitely on the low MOI clutch. Had a 7.5” tilton on my last car and that experience makes me dream about what it would be like on a coyote.

What engine did you put your HTG behind? how hard was it putting together a clutch for it?

if the trans landed is around $15k stateside then I’d guess about $20k all in with a nice clutch, driveshaft, and GCU?
 
I submitted an enquiry. Thanks for the lead. Do you have any details on the electronics side of things? I saw a mention of a speed sensor accessory in the documentation, but little documentation beyond that.
Sure, what details are you looking for? I think the gear position sensor is standard. But the shifter strain gage should you decide to go that route (or paddles) is extra, as well as the output speed sensor. They all come with the reluctor wheel, but the bracket and sensor is extra.


definitely on the low MOI clutch. Had a 7.5” tilton on my last car and that experience makes me dream about what it would be like on a coyote.

What engine did you put your HTG behind? how hard was it putting together a clutch for it?

if the trans landed is around $15k stateside then I’d guess about $20k all in with a nice clutch, driveshaft, and GCU?
I think it would be a dream on a coyote! Mine is behind an old yates 358 so.... small block ford. It was super easy, it bolted up directly to the bellhousing I had. Clutches are also easy and readily available. I think the 20 figure is about right with bellhousing, clutch and driveshaft yeah. I'm not sure how much those gear control units are though.
 
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Definitely leaning towards the HGT now. I've been talking with Richard from HGT and really like the offering. Like @navseng said, the weight and billet case is great. They don't offer as many gear ratios as the 6XD, but they have a ratio that I think will work. Here's what it looks like spinning up to 8k with my tire/rear gear combo. It'd be an absolute monster out of the hairpins before big straights.

IMG_0016.jpg

Cost is coming in at 15.8K before driveshaft, clutch, and GCU. The Spec clutch I already bought should work, so I am just waiting on info about electronics and the driveshaft. The HGT uses a Honeywell speed sensor that is VERY similar to the OEM tremec sensor. I am wondering if they might work? Both are hall-effect with a reluctor wheel around the output shaft. Hmmm.. I have also enquired about a custom output flange to use my existing QA1 driveshaft, but that'll depend on the needed driveshaft length and their willingness. TBD on that still.
 
Hot damn this would be soooo good. Hope it comes together for you. Keep us updated!
x2!!

Id be surprised if your driveshaft still works, they are really short units. That gearing would be insane!! I wanted to do that gearing as well, but I decided to go with the higher 1st gear for a take off gear and then using 2-6 on track (with a .88 6th, he said no issues full pulling with the OD gear so hopefully not...)

https://weddleindustries.com/gear-calculator This is a useful gear calc with a lot of data and % of pull by gear if you haven't seen it.
 
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x2!!

Id be surprised if your driveshaft still works, they are really short units. That gearing would be insane!! I wanted to do that gearing as well, but I decided to go with the higher 1st gear for a take off gear and then using 2-6 on track (with a .88 6th, he said no issues full pulling with the OD gear so hopefully not...)

https://weddleindustries.com/gear-calculator This is a useful gear calc with a lot of data and % of pull by gear if you haven't seen it.

I don't have high confidence, but I can dream! Ha. I'll probably have to have a custom one made. Boo.

I've wondered about a shorter first, but the longer gear makes first perfect for T1 and T11 at COTA, so I think I am going to try it out. I'll bet a I gain 5-6 MPH down the back straight with this easy. The data should be fun!

Thanks for the website. This great!
 

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