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Kenny Brown AGS 4.0

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I dont hear anyone talking about this kit. Is there a reason for that? I read an article on how they put one in a race car in Turnology.com and it seams like he knows what he is talking about. What do you feel about lowering the rear roll center with his kit and removing the anti roll bar in the rear instead of a WTTS link? He says the front roll center needs to be raised for the S197 to make the geometry correct for anti push.
 
There are two distinct schools of thought on this. What I'll call the "old school" way and the more contemporary and complicated way using a watts link. I've discussed this in person with Kenny at KB, Chuck at MM and Filip at CorteX. Another member and local friend YoPauly went with the KB kit and I helped him install some of the kit. To me the watts link, at least in theory, makes more sense in keeping the axle centered and the bump response even on both sides. Again in theory this should help in transitions but maybe only a pro can tell the difference. I've also talked to several race teams and looked at what they're running when their class regulations allow something different from stock. The old school way lowers the roll center by relocating the panhard bar. This is what NASCAR basically runs. Many of the Pirelli World Challenge teams are running watts links and CorteX is a popular choice. They all agree that you need to adjust the front roll center when lowering the car.
 
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Jason - could you please post a link to the article?

Rick - thank you for talking about your discussions with the various proponents.

The one thing everyone seems to comment on when they install a Watts is that the rear wheels seem more 'planted', which I interpret as having more rear traction. I wish there were more reviews on the KB kit.
 
Champale said:
Jason - could you please post a link to the article?

Rick - thank you for talking about your discussions with the various proponents.

The one thing everyone seems to comment on when they install a Watts is that the rear wheels seem more 'planted', which I interpret as having more rear traction. I wish there were more reviews on the KB kit.
Im not good at links and such, but just google Turnology.com and open it up. You will see about 3 articles pertaining to Mustangs in suspension tab and this was one of them.
 
Champale said:
Jason - could you please post a link to the article?

Rick - thank you for talking about your discussions with the various proponents.

The one thing everyone seems to comment on when they install a Watts is that the rear wheels seem more 'planted', which I interpret as having more rear traction. I wish there were more reviews on the KB kit.
YoPauly also said his KB setup was a lot more planted, to the point where the front was pushing. That was with no rear sway bar and he recently added a small sway bar and liked the improvement in balance. He's still running a staggered setup but is moving to square this season. I' might go square as well but it will be after I wear out my current staggered NT01's.
 
NFSBOSS said:
There are two distinct schools of thought on this. What I'll call the "old school" way and the more contemporary and complicated way using a watts link. I've discussed this in person with Kenny at KB, Chuck at MM and Filip at CorteX. Another member and local friend YoPauly went with the KB kit and I helped him install some of the kit. To me the watts link, at least in theory, makes more sense in keeping the axle centered and the bump response even on both sides. Again in theory this should help in transitions but maybe only a pro can tell the difference. I've also talked to several race teams and looked at what they're running when their class regulations allow something different from stock. The old school way lowers the roll center by relocating the panhard bar. This is what NASCAR basically runs. Many of the Pirelli World Challenge teams are running watts links and CorteX is a popular choice. They all agree that you need to adjust the front roll center when lowering the car.
Thank you, Do you know of any time where two cars with theses two setups were on a track at the same time? Or have you driven both setups or talked to someone who has that isnt bias and has tried them out? If both KB and Cortex were to give you their setup for free, which would you choose and why?
Thanks for answering.
 
Jason said:
Thank you, Do you know of any time where two cars with theses two setups were on a track at the same time? Or have you driven both setups or talked to someone who has that isnt bias and has tried them out? If both KB and Cortex were to give you their setup for free, which would you choose and why?
Thanks for answering.
I don't know of any head to head tests but my CorteX watts link, front end roll center correction and JRI dampers get installed on my car in two weeks at CorteX. Both approaches are going to have similar improvements and both sides make strong cases for their approach. I'm local to CorteX and see Mustangs with their products at every track day I attend. It's obvious that KB and MM have decades of experience in Mustangs and know what they are talking about. The deciding factor for me is what are the current race cars running. I talked to a highly regarded Mustang PWC driver and race winner and he highly endorsed the CorteX watts link and that finalized my decision.
 
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I think this might be the article Jason is talking about:

http://www.turnology.com/tech-stories/brakes-suspension/installing-kenny-brown-ags-4-0-suspension-on-our-2011-mustang/

I spoke to KB a while back about just offering the PH relocation brackets without having to buy the included PHB and brace (for those of us that already have aftermarket ones) but they never got back to me (and I forgot about it until now).
 
Champale said:
I think this might be the article Jason is talking about:

http://www.turnology.com/tech-stories/brakes-suspension/installing-kenny-brown-ags-4-0-suspension-on-our-2011-mustang/

I spoke to KB a while back about just offering the PH relocation brackets without having to buy the included PHB and brace (for those of us that already have aftermarket ones) but they never got back to me (and I forgot about it until now).

Thats exactly what I was wondering to.
 

302 Hi Pro

Boss 302 - Racing Legend to Modern Muscle Car
2,009
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IMO, KB was the best set up going through 2012, and KB S197's won 2 maybe 3 championships. We also have to remember this was before the restricter plates were forced on the Mustang Teams. But in the past 18 months or so, many have migrated to the CorTex set up, but I don't know if they are winning on the track.

With that said, I run the KB rear suspension set up, but I did have trouble with his UCA as the noise was so horrendous I had to remove it. Of course no support from KB which was disappointing. I now run the Steeda adjustable poly UCA and the system does work wonders with T springs and Koni Sports.

My car turns on a dime and I don't have any front end push, it does explode out of the turn with some oversteer, but with throttle modulation, you can keep the line and the steering wheel is loose in your hand she straightens right up. So for me, an intermediate driver, it works great.

I like the CorTex rear suspension setup but I would not install a torque arm.

If I were to do it over again today, I would base my decision on Customer support, and I'm sorry to say, this is not a KB strong suit. In my experience that is. . .

Hope this helps,
Dave
302 HP
 
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Thank you for that information, Dave! Just to be clear - are you running the KB roll center relo brackets?

One of the things that is appealing to me about the KB RC relo brackets is the ease of installation in comparison to the various Watts links. I have installed my UCA/LCAs/relos/coilovers/etc but a Watts link look like a huge pain to do while lying on my back in the driveway!
 
Jason,

I have the full KB AGS-4 on my LS. I like it...a lot...

- KB/Eibach Coil Over struts/shocks/springs
- KB K-Member/ custom lower cross brace to tie the FLCA rear pick-up points together
- KB Front Lower Control Arms
- KB outer tie rod ends (bump steer correction)
- KB Rear Lower Control Arms (Street/Sport) and Relocation Brackets
- KB Upper Control Module (3d Link)
- KB Rear Roll Center Relocation Kit (no rear sway bar)
- KB Jacking Rails
- KB Matrix Brace
- KB Rear Shock Tower Brace

Other suspension parts
- Ford Racing EPAS steering rack
- Eibach 36mm 3-way adjustable sway bar (front) w/ Steeda Adjustable End Links
- MM Caster Camber Plate
- ARP Studs

Other mods include
- Michelin Pilot Super Sport: 275/30-19 (front) and 295/30-19 (rear)
- 14" slotted, 2-piece Baer rotors (front and rear)
- MM 1/2" wheel spacer (front)
- Stop Tech SS brake lines w/ MOTUL RBF-600 brake fluid
- 12.5qt Chicane23/Armando Road Race Oil Pan
- DSS 1-piece Aluminum Driveshaft
- Hurst Shifter w/ Blowfish shifter bracket
- Kooks Shorty Headers
- Ford Racing 84.5mm TB
- Airaid CF intake
- GT-500 Axle Back w/ 1 1/8" exhaust discs
- GT-500 fan assy
- Boss 302S Grill

I like the set up a lot. The car is very stable, not choppy or harsh riding. Turn in is smooth and predicable. Gone is the sensation under braking that the rear end wanted to come up under you...now under braking the car hunkers down and stops...minimal nose dive. There was some increase in NVH...I replaced all of the KB supplied rod ends with Aroura rod ends...the clunking and banging normally associated with rod ends went away.

Would I go this route again...yep. What I liked about the AGS-4 set up is that its a fully engineered and tested system. Not saying that other suspension systems (e.g. MM, Cortex) are not, but what I am saying is that your not running a mixed bag of parts.

I don't think you'd be dis-satisfied with anything from KB, Cortex, or MM.

r/
Eric
 
Jason,

Yes I have. A number of years ago, I installed a MM Road and Track Grip Package on my wife's '06 GT vert (Tokico D-Spec, H&R Sport Springs, MM CC plates, MM Panhard Bar, Eibach f/r sway bars). It had the same affect...much crisper ride. I recently installed Ford Racing RLCA relocation brackets and Eibach RLCAs....this took care of the axle hop under acceleration.

Recently, I installed what is essentially a MM Road and Track Grip package on a fellow BMO member's 2012 Boss 302. MM CC plates, Koni Sports, Ford Racing P Springs, Ford Racing RLCA relocation brackets, Ford Racing Panhard Bar, and Eibach RLCAs. OEM Boss 302 sway bars remained on the car. All of these components have been used together as well by a number of BMO members with similar results. Vast improvements in ride, performance, handling, turn in, reduced nose dive...far better than stock. With this set up, there wasn't any increase in NVH....no rod ends.

When I spoke with Kenny Brown prior to buying the AGS-4, his goal was to reduce the number of adjustments and fiddling with suspension set ups as the vast majority of folks with adjustable set ups don't use the adjustments. So, the AGS-4 I have on my LS is essentially non-adjustable (with the exception of the front sway bar)....KB did all of the engineering and testing, which works for me. Even after experiencing the dreaded steering shudder (likely induced by changes to the suspension geometry and steering feedback) which the EPAS rack solved, I'm still a satisfied customer.

r
Eric
 

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