Oil Cooler Setup, Thoughts and Questions

[TeeLew]

No one wants to hear this, but here goes. The heat problem is with the water. These engines aren't quite as cold-blooded as Eco's, but they don't like high temps. In a perfect world, I think we'd probably shoot for CHT in the 200* range on track and the oil maybe 230*. This would take a larger/more efficient water cooling system as much as it would oil. Cooling the water would remove a *massive* amount of heat out of the engine and that would make oil cooling easier. The bulk of the cooling is done through the water because the heat transfer rate is much faster. Until we get water under control, though, then we'll never get oil figured out. I feel the 220/230* CHT numbers that people commonly run on track are the root cause. Adding an oil cooler will drop the temp of the oil to some extent, but there isn't enough heat transfer capacity to truly get things under control. Ultimately, we end up with an excessively large oil cooler and everything running at 230*.

I think all of us are hard pressed to get enough cooling capacity.

 

[Fabman]

No one wants to hear this, but here goes. The heat problem is with the water. These engines aren't quite as cold-blooded as Eco's, but they don't like high temps. In a perfect world, I think we'd probably shoot for CHT in the 200* range on track and the oil maybe 230*. This would take a larger/more efficient water cooling system as much as it would oil. Cooling the water would remove a *massive* amount of heat out of the engine and that would make oil cooling easier. The bulk of the cooling is done through the water because the heat transfer rate is much faster. Until we get water under control, though, then we'll never get oil figured out. I feel the 220/230* CHT numbers that people commonly run on track are the root cause. Adding an oil cooler will drop the temp of the oil to some extent, but there isn't enough heat transfer capacity to truly get things under control. Ultimately, we end up with an excessively large oil cooler and everything running at 230*.

I think all of us are hard pressed to get enough cooling capacity.

It can be done, I'm running 200/210 ish on both oil and water with a 948 and standard size fluidyne radiator (with my little 3 pass mod) on e85 with an electric water pump that i was told over and over would never work.
8200 rpm shifts w2w in 100* heat. Maybe 220 in the most extreme conditions.

My strategy has always been: maximize absolutely everything and take no shortcuts....good results will follow.
Its worked for me for a very long time....

 

[twistedneck]

Nope. As long as the ECU sees 100% pedal position at start up, fuel will not flow. The way it was explained to me was the throttle to the floor at start up is equal to what we did with carbs. Flooding the engine with too much fuel was cured by flooring the gas and then cranking. The current programing does the same thing, the same way. The difference now is that once the throttle is released, fuel flows and the engine starts.

Now you tell me this after doing it wrong since 2011.. GREAT!!! ugh.. thanks for the excellent info but something tells me 'too late now'.. will work for my next engine i guess.

 

[Paul McWhiskey]

I have some questions. I have already purchased the Harrop oil cooler kit. I also have the FP water pump sitting on the bench w/a Riechle 170 degree thermostat. Additionally, I am about to order Race Louvers and ventilate the hood.
My goal is to start with HPDE and see if I end up with a serious infection. I enjoy driving the car on the street and only put about 3-4k on it a year so it has become more of a toy, so not a DD. And, due to my skill level it cannot be even thought of as a race car. I just want to learn how to become a better driver to enjoy the car more.
So, though it may not be the “best” set up, will the Harrop mounted perpendicular to the rad, with Race Louvers be sufficient for my purposes? Will the installation of a single wicker? louvre? (not sure of the proper terminology) at the front of the cutout for the oil cooler create a lower pressure area to help draw air from the top of the cooler through it? Do I need to modify the sandwich plate that comes with the kit? Just how important is it to ditch the AN10’s and use 12’s? And finally, should I install the 170 degree thermostat or stay with the factory unit?
I will be draining and refilling the cooling system along with the addition of Wetter Water. Am I on the right track (pun intended) to adding engine cooling?
Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions, criticisms and advice.

 

[JDee]

I have some questions. I have already purchased the Harrop oil cooler kit. I also have the FP water pump sitting on the bench w/a Riechle 170 degree thermostat. Additionally, I am about to order Race Louvers and ventilate the hood.
My goal is to start with HPDE and see if I end up with a serious infection. I enjoy driving the car on the street and only put about 3-4k on it a year so it has become more of a toy, so not a DD. And, due to my skill level it cannot be even thought of as a race car. I just want to learn how to become a better driver to enjoy the car more.
So, though it may not be the “best” set up, will the Harrop mounted perpendicular to the rad, with Race Louvers be sufficient for my purposes? Will the installation of a single wicker? louvre? (not sure of the proper terminology) at the front of the cutout for the oil cooler create a lower pressure area to help draw air from the top of the cooler through it? Do I need to modify the sandwich plate that comes with the kit? Just how important is it to ditch the AN10’s and use 12’s? And finally, should I install the 170 degree thermostat or stay with the factory unit?
I will be draining and refilling the cooling system along with the addition of Wetter Water. Am I on the right track (pun intended) to adding engine cooling?
Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions, criticisms and advice.

My advice would be to not do anything much until you actually do a couple of track days to find out whether it's really what you want to do or not. If you decide you enjoy it and want to continue, then I would focus initially on heat management because that is the #1 problem these cars have once you put them on a track.
Depending on the car you have you may already have an oil cooler that will be fine while you are learning, you might want to check into that.
Consider doing a build thread with details about your car.
Race Louvers hood vents will make a big difference in air flow through the engine room and the cost is pretty low. You likely will find that at least for the first year or so that's all you need to do. You should focus on sharpening your driving skills now, not so much on modding the car, yet.

 

[Paul McWhiskey]

It’s an infection that I have had since before I got my DL. I have never owned a car or truck that I have not modified, and sometimes extensively. Also have never owned anything with an automatic transmission. My wife has but not me, and I just had that realization about 3-4 weeks ago. Geez! Now that I am thinking about all of this I have been doing this for 50 years.
Would still appreciate others input. I get the skill building, but I don’t mind modifying because I enjoy it and I also keep my cars till the junk man won’t give me $50 for them.

 

[Dave_W]

Since you already have the Harrop kit, just start with that. Keep an eye on oil temp (get a dedicated gauge) and if it starts to get too hot, do a cool-down lap. If you get to the point where you need more cooling, follow FabMan's build. But for someone starting out in HPDE, you're probably fine with no mods at all, so the Harrop kit is extra insurance.

 

[thelostotter]

The Harrop kit mounts really well and works well enough for me (after upgrading the fittings and lines to -12, this makes a huge difference), it’s not quite adequate to push for 20 minutes straight in the AZ heat but a cool down lap thrown in is all it takes to get it back under control.