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Relocation bracket questions

367
1
WinterSucks said:
So could wanting roll over steer be the reason that some 302S teams run without a roll bar in the rear? Does this give them a sneaky advantage? A Watts link will not change this behavior, just keep the axle centered, right?

right.

But FWIW, roll steer is baked into most suspensions--including IRS. Only in those situations, they play with toe change and bushing compliance to achieve the same thing.
In some ways, we are more fortunate because we have easier access to tuning this aspect.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
WinterSucks said:
So could wanting roll over steer be the reason that some 302S teams run without a roll bar in the rear? Does this give them a sneaky advantage? A Watts link will not change this behavior, just keep the axle centered, right?

I haven't heard it directly, but I suspect it works that way. I wouldn't call it sneaky per se, just good tuning.

A watts link wouldn't eliminate roll steer, but it would help control the height of the roll center and change some of the properties with consistency.
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
4,671
3,390
Santiago, Chile
Wow, Just came back from a long trip to our best track in Chile. The BMR relo brackets and LCAs where a complete success, I won my overall time division and then went on to lower my time another 2 secs in the rear wheel drive class. The car handled so much better with none of the snap oversteer or lack of turn in I had with just the P springs installed. I could put the power down harder and sooner and even if I over cooked it, was still easy to bring back. Would strongly recommend that you get the LCAs and brackets if you lower the car for more then looks.

Lots of great help on this forum!! Grant, the article you found was like a Eureka moment to help me understand the suspension better, Thanks again!!

Still behind my team mates Camaros. Dam those ZL1s! Yes, I know.... Need wider tires
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
Glad it helped you. 8)

What position did you use on the BMR brackets? Some of the discussion above is about the FRPP brackets which only have two (new) adjustment holes which look like they are about the same as the upper two holes on the BMRs.

I'm sure you'll eventually go bigger/stickier on the tires! :) ;)
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
4,671
3,390
Santiago, Chile
I used the middle setting in the BMR Bracket. Was going to change it at the last event to see, but was so happy with it, just kept it where it was. Trying to make up my mind between R6 or A6 Hooziers!! 295/30-18 probably....
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
4,671
3,390
Santiago, Chile
Just to be sure... we will be running 10 to 15min time trials on race tracks from 1.6 to 3km long. Would that be autoX or Open track?? Silly question but what the heck, If I dont ask....

The A6 tires scare me a bit since they sound semi disposable $$$??
 

Domestic Product

Big fat tires and everything !
Mad Hatter (ex splatter) said:
I used the middle setting in the BMR Bracket. Was going to change it at the last event to see, but was so happy with it, just kept it where it was. Trying to make up my mind between R6 or A6 Hooziers!! 295/30-18 probably....

Hell, thought I would chime in here with my thoughts. Como estai? looks like you are having a blast and driving the Boss as intended, nice. The track or tracks you show look nice I would love to drive one.
1.6 to 3 km tracks , go with a track tire.
I do not see sway bars on your mod list or upgraded dampers. I would do those first before going to a big sticky square tire set up. On the sways some thing that's adjustable front and rear (I like White line). If you do not add more sway up front and or less sway in the rear with a tire set up like that , the back end is going to come around on you. The car I think we all agree is under dampered, there are several good choices to upgrade with out spending a lot. I went with Bilstein.
I'm at more or less the same point with my car. I'm ordering the Whiteline sways and will run a few HPDEs with them. Then move from my staggered LS wheels and S Sports to some 18 x 10 wheels (really like what Blow Fish has for sale) and add some track rubber. For me I'm not racing so I will be running N-TO1s or something that I can drive to the track and around town in the summer.
Hoosiers , they change a lot, once you run them there is no going back. Hoosiers do wear out quick so if you run them have some room on your visa card. I have seen guys cord them in one day at a HPDE. Check out Aim tires they have some good info on tire choices and not bad pricing. http://www.aimtire.com/typ_category.asp?Unique=41671%2E4503240741&ObjectID=6637
I have a couple buddies one with a FR500 and one with a modified 2012 GT500 and they both run the G-Force R1s. They love them and swear by them. The Z-214s are priced the best, you are looking at about a $1,000 us for a set of 4 in 275s and will out last the others.
Keep having fun down there and get those Camaros!
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
Mad Hatter (ex splatter) said:
Just to be sure... we will be running 10 to 15min time trials on race tracks from 1.6 to 3km long. Would that be autoX or Open track?? Silly question but what the heck, If I dont ask....

The A6 tires scare me a bit since they sound semi disposable $$$??

All money for tires is disposable! Between the two with the R6. A6 wouldn't last long, but could net you better times for time trial. Autocross format is single timed laps, so there's time for the tires to cool down between runs. You could use A6 for 'ringer' tires, and in your case use them only for competition.
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
4,671
3,390
Santiago, Chile
Domestic Product said:
Hell, thought I would chime in here with my thoughts. Como estai? looks like you are having a blast and driving the Boss as intended, nice. The track or tracks you show look nice I would love to drive one.
1.6 to 3 km tracks , go with a track tire.
I do not see sway bars on your mod list or upgraded dampers. I would do those first before going to a big sticky square tire set up. On the sways some thing that's adjustable front and rear (I like White line). If you do not add more sway up front and or less sway in the rear with a tire set up like that , the back end is going to come around on you. The car I think we all agree is under dampered, there are several good choices to upgrade with out spending a lot. I went with Bilstein.
I'm at more or less the same point with my car. I'm ordering the Whiteline sways and will run a few HPDEs with them. Then move from my staggered LS wheels and S Sports to some 18 x 10 wheels (really like what Blow Fish has for sale) and add some track rubber. For me I'm not racing so I will be running N-TO1s or something that I can drive to the track and around town in the summer.
Hoosiers , they change a lot, once you run them there is no going back. Hoosiers do wear out quick so if you run them have some room on your visa card. I have seen guys cord them in one day at a HPDE. Check out Aim tires they have some good info on tire choices and not bad pricing. http://www.aimtire.com/typ_category.asp?Unique=41671%2E4503240741&ObjectID=6637
I have a couple buddies one with a FR500 and one with a modified 2012 GT500 and they both run the G-Force R1s. They love them and swear by them. The Z-214s are priced the best, you are looking at about a $1,000 us for a set of 4 in 275s and will out last the others.
Keep having fun down there and get those Camaros!

Como Estai!! Too true, took me for ages to learn Chilean!! About the sway bars, I cheat and have the front shocks at 5 and rears at 3, that and the relo brackets made the tail very controllable last time out. Will look into a adjustable front bar though, and maybe some Bilstien shocks. Running with the Dunlop Dirreza ZII square eliminated understeer almost completely.

Since I will be making the plunge into slicks, I wanted to get the widest tire I could, lots of 275/35-18 slicks available but Hoozier has the 295/35-18 that seem very tempting.

Grant! I like the idea of using the A6 as a ringer! But a bit worried about the hotter days we get down here, I have seen the affect of too much heat and Toyo R888s on the camaros.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
Mad Hatter said:
Grant! I like the idea of using the A6 as a ringer! But a bit worried about the hotter days we get down here, I have seen the affect of too much heat and Toyo R888s on the camaros.

The R888 have a reputation for getting greasy on track and in the heat. I don't have experience with the A6, but I don't think you have to worry about them that way.

racered302 said:
Anyone using relocation brackets with stock springs?
Some drag racers do it.
 

Domestic Product

Big fat tires and everything !
Mad Hatter said:
Como Estai!! Too true, took me for ages to learn Chilean!! About the sway bars, I cheat and have the front shocks at 5 and rears at 3, that and the relo brackets made the tail very controllable last time out. Will look into a adjustable front bar though, and maybe some Bilstien shocks. Running with the Dunlop Dirreza ZII square eliminated understeer almost completely.

Since I will be making the plunge into slicks, I wanted to get the widest tire I could, lots of 275/35-18 slicks available but Hoozier has the 295/35-18 that seem very tempting.

Grant! I like the idea of using the A6 as a ringer! But a bit worried about the hotter days we get down here, I have seen the affect of too much heat and Toyo R888s on the camaros.

Look closely at the Hoosier specs and you will see the 285 at 10.9" tread is actually wider then the 295 at 10.8" with the 275 at 10.3". Any of those tires will drastically improve your cornering and braking over what you have. I would give the guys at Vorshlag a call and discuss your car set up with R comps.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Hoosier&tireModel=R6
 
Installed the M-5649-R1 LCAs with poly bushings tonight and used the bottom hole in the relocation bracket instead of the upper one. I was at an uphill angle of -1.8 degrees and now at -5.0. I have been struggling to get the rear to squat powering out of corners and then Rick pointed me to this info on Cortex's site:

Symptom: Cannot put power down during corner exit
This issue can be difficult because the vehicle may have too much or too little anti-squat or spring rate. If the car doesn’t have enough anti-squat or is too soft it will take weight too long to transfer to the rear tires. Conversely, if the car has too much anti-squat or too stiff of springs the suspension will not be able to do its job and the car will break traction over minor irregularities on the track surface. Therefore, some experience is required to correctly diagnose this situation.
Changes Front & Rear
1. Increase anti-squat (done lower the rear lower control arm pivot point on the axle bracket but can also be done by raising the rear ride height. At ride height the rear lower arm should be slightly uphill (3-5 degree) toward the front of the vehicle.
2. Soften or stiffen the compression setting on the rear shocks
3. Increase or decrease rebound settings on front shocks
4. Apply the throttle more smoothly (driver issue)


Looking forward to testing it out. I can feel the issue even on the street so am hoping I'll see the difference before going to the track in late April. Now we just need some decent weather so I can get it back out to test it. :-\
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
4,671
3,390
Santiago, Chile
Great!, I just did the same on my BMR brackets. Moved the LCA to the lower hole on the BMR bracket, Off to a Time attack on Sunday, looking forward to comparing notes! Also put in a BMR drive shaft hoop and Whiteline transmission rubber thingy.
 
Got it out a little today and initial indications are there is better rear grip on acceleration out of corners. It was only in the 50s and didn't get much road time so can't make a definitive statement yet, but initial indications were positive. 1-3 inches of snow tomorrow so it may be a while before I can get more miles on it :mad:
 
cloud9 said:
Got it out a little today and initial indications are there is better rear grip on acceleration out of corners. It was only in the 50s and didn't get much road time so can't make a definitive statement yet, but initial indications were positive. 1-3 inches of snow tomorrow so it may be a while before I can get more miles on it :mad:
Good to hear that!
I am thinking to add FRPP LCA ( polyurethane bushings) with brackets to my otherwise STOCK rear suspension, do you think that will help me put the power down better exiting the corner?
 

Tucson 302

2013 Black LS #439
cloud9 said:
Got it out a little today and initial indications are there is better rear grip on acceleration out of corners. It was only in the 50s and didn't get much road time so can't make a definitive statement yet, but initial indications were positive. 1-3 inches of snow tomorrow so it may be a while before I can get more miles on it :mad:

I feel sorry for you guys out east, it's actually getting hot here in AZ!
 

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