S197 Tire Fitment...

[Norm Peterson]

Picking up a set of 18x11s with a more track oriented tire that will perform better and last longer makes sense. Most of the time when I attend track days I am joined by a few friends who tow their vehicles and would have space for my extra rims, tires and a few tools.

Guess I will have to research budget friendly track tires that can take advantage of a 18x11.

Keep in mind that 18x11 is also a tire industry acceptable width for 285/35, 275/40 and 275/35 and 295/xx tires.

What you end up with 285/35-18 on 11" looks like ↓↓↓




Norm

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Norm is quite correct, you will have a wide range of tires that will fit on that size rim, but you mentioned you wanted to get another set for Autocross and road racing. I was suggesting the wider sizes, as there is no substitute for more rubber on the ground, imho.

305/660/18 used Pirelli slicks were the most common size guys were using at the Mustang Roundup over the past few years. Keep in mind you will want a 25mm front spacer if you pick up a set of Apex rims. Virtually everyone was running even quicker on the slicks than on R7s.

 

[KRyn]

Hmm it seems that the Enkei PF01 18x10.5 +38 is a good option between the 18x10 and 18x11 Apex EC7 offerings which allows one to rotate tires and doesn't require FRPP hubs or spacers. While they aren't as good looking I can't really find any faults with them? Am I missing anything here, they do poke out marginally more? You could pick up a small spacer if you wanted to run either 295/35/18 or 295/40/18s up front.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Go with the Apex as they are hub centric and again , many of us used them ( Enkeis ), years back, but they don't work quite as well if you put on bigger rubber.

I run over a full second slower on 295s than I do on 315s. The Apex 18x11s give you options to use 295s , but also go larger so why limit yourself?

 

[Coz]

doesn't require FRPP hubs or spacers.

I thought that the thickest spacer you could use with stock S197 front hubs while still allowing decent thread engagement is 5mm.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Norm is quite correct, you will have a wide range of tires that will fit on that size rim, but you mentioned you wanted to get another set for Autocross and road racing. I was suggesting the wider sizes, as there is no substitute for more rubber on the ground, imho.

Mainly I was looking at being able to run truly streetable tires rather than being locked in to R-comps and slicks. I'm not finding much in 18" that's wider than 285 that fits that constraint. 305/30-19 looks like an interesting size, but that means yet another set of wheels, and I'd be thinking of going another half inch wider as well.

A dozen years or so ago I was doing the swap-tires-at-an-event thing for autocross. These days, doing that holds little appeal, even for a two-day track event. I'd rather drive up, empty the car, put some numbers on the doors, and be basically ready to go.


Norm

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Understand Norm, yet since the gentleman was looking for rims , as well as discussing Autocrossing and track events, it seemed we should discuss 200 Treadwear rated tires at the minimum? Since he already has a set for the street , getting more aggressive just makes sense, since one needs R compounds or select 200 Treadwear rated rubber to be competitive, imho.I can certainly respect the idea of a set of tires for everything, but once rims enter the picture, getting ones ( size wise ) with the most options is what seems logical to me?

Lately we have seen more brands pop out with some larger size 18s, so though there are 285/295s out there , there are at least three competitive brands putting out 200 TW rated rubber in 315s. The Toyo RRs , DOT Comp. tires, in 295s are a bargain right now for the guy who does have a set of extra rims to mount really sticky rubber on. I definitely know it won't be many years before I want to just drive to the track with the tires that can stay on my car, yet I am under the foolish notion that I am still reasonably quick? So, gotta put the biggest rubber under the beast as I can for now, ha,ha.

Always good for folks to get feedback from many of us, as we all have different thoughts and who knows what might be the catalyst for someone to make the choice that fits them the best?

 

[Daegoba]

Mainly I was looking at being able to run truly streetable tires rather than being locked in to R-comps and slicks. I'm not finding much in 18" that's wider than 285 that fits that constraint. 305/30-19 looks like an interesting size, but that means yet another set of wheels, and I'd be thinking of going another half inch wider as well.

A dozen years or so ago I was doing the swap-tires-at-an-event thing for autocross. These days, doing that holds little appeal, even for a two-day track event. I'd rather drive up, empty the car, put some numbers on the doors, and be basically ready to go.


Norm

Yeah, this is why I’m looking at Apex for 19x10 up front and 19x11 in the rear. I want something that will give me the most rubber to the ground and still be able to daily my car. No wild camber, no clearance issues, no spacers, adapters, etc.

Driving your car to the track, and driving it home is the most appealing to me. I’d consider going 19x10 all the way around so I could rotate, (and possibly have better balance?) but I haven’t decided what’s more important as of yet.

 

[KRyn]

I thought that the thickest spacer you could use with stock S197 front hubs while still allowing decent thread engagement is 5mm.

I didn't know this, thanks for sharing.

Always good for folks to get feedback from many of us, as we all have different thoughts and who knows what might be the catalyst for someone to make the choice that fits them the best?

Yes it is and I appreciate everyone taking the time to listen to my ramblings. Depending on whether or not my tires last through the summer will likely dictate which route I go (18x10 or 18x11).

 

[domesticpower]

I was in a very similar place just a few months ago and ended up with Apex 19x11's all around. I also wanted to avoid spacers and studs but two extra inches of wheels and tires (one per side) is hard to overlook and there is nothing stopping you from daily driving with the spacers and studs.

I'm not sure what you consider wild camber but I sort of daily my car in the summer (drive it whenever I can, just don't get to often anymore with a kid) with -2.3 on street and tires wear evenly. I do anywhere between 2-4k street miles a season. It all depends on how much the tires wear on track. If you only do a couple of track days a year and don't push the car to 10/10ths or if you drive 10-15k miles a year, I suspect you'll probably have uneven wear outside factory camber specs. If you are into more than a handful of track days a year and you're pushing the tires hard, wear on the street will never be enough to dictate your alignment.

 

[KRyn]

I was in a very similar place just a few months ago and ended up with Apex 19x11's all around. I also wanted to avoid spacers and studs but two extra inches of wheels and tires (one per side) is hard to overlook and there is nothing stopping you from daily driving with the spacers and studs.

I'm not sure what you consider wild camber but I sort of daily my car in the summer (drive it whenever I can, just don't get to often anymore with a kid) with -2.3 on street and tires wear evenly. I do anywhere between 2-4k street miles a season. It all depends on how much the tires wear on track. If you only do a couple of track days a year and don't push the car to 10/10ths or if you drive 10-15k miles a year, I suspect you'll probably have uneven wear outside factory camber specs. If you are into more than a handful of track days a year and you're pushing the tires hard, wear on the street will never be enough to dictate your alignment.

Have you had any issues with rubbing on your new setup at the track or around town? From your mod list in your signature, I assume you are on stock suspension (springs and dampers)? I think I will likely end up with extended studs or FRPP hubs and 18x11s. If I am going to need spacers and extended studs to run a 18x10 with anything bigger than a 275, may as well get the 18x11s. I guess if I ever lower the car it will look as good as if I had stock suspension and 19x11.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

One of the keys , whether you have rims that require spacers or not , is it is a solid idea to look into longer ARP studs. I am sure the Maestro , Blacksheep 1, will chime in here, but the fact that many of us love to run over curbing ( lifts a front tire and for a few milliseconds we can emulate Andrew Aquilante ,ha) means stress on the studs. Have seen many broken over the years and the stronger ARP ones are a nice little safety factor in my mind? Of course , if you need a spacer , this should be an absolute given , but thought I would throw this out there?

 

[domesticpower]

Have you had any issues with rubbing on your new setup at the track or around town? From your mod list in your signature, I assume you are on stock suspension (springs and dampers)? I think I will likely end up with extended studs or FRPP hubs and 18x11s. If I am going to need spacers and extended studs to run a 18x10 with anything bigger than a 275, may as well get the 18x11s. I guess if I ever lower the car it will look as good as if I had stock suspension and 19x11.

I will be able to confirm soon whether or not there is any rubbing (first track day on the new setup is this month) so will post here after. You are right, I'm on stock springs and dampers.

I don't think you'll need anything with 18x10" in proper offset, should be a direct fit. Check out APEX's fitment guide here: https://support.apexraceparts.com/h...5526493-S197-Mustang-Wheel-Tire-Fitment-Guide

18x10" ET40 square with 275/40/18 tires are listed as a direct fit, and 285/35/18 or 285/40/18 may require a 5 mm spacer. I have actually used 285/35/18's on 18x9.5" ET40 wheels for years without any rubbing. Not a great setup (performance wise, wheels are too narrow) but no rubbing.

And listen to Bill on studs!! I have sheared two OEM studs on my car checking torque, even after letting them cool for 30-45 mins. Don't mean to scare you, but they are a wear item and can't be used forever. If your car has original wheel studs, it's probably a good idea to replace them when you get your wheels so you might as well upgrade at the time.

 

[KRyn]

I will be able to confirm soon whether or not there is any rubbing (first track day on the new setup is this month) so will post here after. You are right, I'm on stock springs and dampers.

And listen to Bill on studs!! I have sheared two OEM studs on my car checking torque, even after letting them cool for 30-45 mins. Don't mean to scare you, but they are a wear item and can't be used forever. If your car has original wheel studs, it's probably a good idea to replace them when you get your wheels so you might as well upgrade at the time.

Keep me posted as I will likely not be ordering wheels for a month or so.

Safety is something I never mess around with. It simply isn't work taking unnecessary risks particularly when they potential for a serious disaster exists. Really appreciate the exchange everyone, glad I signed up here.

 

[Drlee50]

for the 18x11's- anyone have info on the performance of a Pirelli 305/645 vs 660 vs 680?
the tire heights are 25.2, 26 and 26.8 respectively. Any tire for that matter but Pirelli is the most available used slick Id say. Currently, the 645 and the 680 are all that's available. so 25.2 vs 26.8" tall tires. Does one perform better on track than the other? Of the 2, which would you run?

 

[domesticpower]

Keep me posted as I will likely not be ordering wheels for a month or so.

Safety is something I never mess around with. It simply isn't work taking unnecessary risks particularly when they potential for a serious disaster exists. Really appreciate the exchange everyone, glad I signed up here.

First day at the track day and no rubbing. I'm impressed because they do poke out, but camber is maxed out at "only" -2.3 deg with my plates and they're recommended to be -2.5 to -3.0 deg. Back clearance is about half an inch or less. It's all very tight, but they didn't rub. Those 71R's turned out to have pretty fat sidewalls as well so a different tire might have more clearance.

 

[Daegoba]

So...

I ended up extending the budget for a few dollars and about 6 months. That allowed me to order a set of Forgeline’s. They are beautiful, light, and fit absolutely perfect. No rubs, vibrations, or noise. I’ll link the build thread here

2013 Mustang Boss_302 Profile: Plain Jane - TrackMustangsOnline.com

One of 89 with “zero options”.. View specs, mod list, and build thread for this Mustang and other S197 Mustangs on TMO.

trackmustangsonline.com

...and give you a peek





I ended up with
19x10 +38 285/35/19
19x11 +52 305/35/19

When I removed the OEM wheels, they had about 7,200 miles on them with the car lowered. The tires showed a noticeable amount of wear on the inside of the tread compared to the rest of the tread. I had an alignment 60 miles after lowering the car, and the front was set at -1.2° and -1.3° in the front. I’ll need camber plates to get it any closer, but I’m not so sure I can’t just live with it, because the car is phenomenal on mountain roads and curvy two lanes. I love it. Clean, predictable, and easy to have fun with.
Hopefully, we can get through this Corn Teen soon enough and I can slap some 200tw tires (I’m leaning towards Rivals; all input is welcome) on the oem wheels and learn what the hell I'm doing.
I would love to have some 18x11’s to track with. One step at a time, I’ll be there.

 

[Ludachris]

So...

I ended up extending the budget for a few dollars and about 6 months. That allowed me to order a set of Forgeline’s. They are beautiful, light, and fit absolutely perfect. No rubs, vibrations, or noise. I’ll link the build thread here

2013 Mustang Boss_302 Profile: Plain Jane - TrackMustangsOnline.com

One of 89 with “zero options”.. View specs, mod list, and build thread for this Mustang and other S197 Mustangs on TMO.

trackmustangsonline.com

...and give you a peek

View attachment 14675

View attachment 14676

I ended up with
19x10 +38 285/35/19
19x11 +52 305/35/19

When I removed the OEM wheels, they had about 7,200 miles on them with the car lowered. The tires showed a noticeable amount of wear on the inside of the tread compared to the rest of the tread. I had an alignment 60 miles after lowering the car, and the front was set at -1.2° and -1.3° in the front. I’ll need camber plates to get it any closer, but I’m not so sure I can’t just live with it, because the car is phenomenal on mountain roads and curvy two lanes. I love it. Clean, predictable, and easy to have fun with.
Hopefully, we can get through this Corn Teen soon enough and I can slap some 200tw tires (I’m leaning towards Rivals; all input is welcome) on the oem wheels and learn what the hell I'm doing.
I would love to have some 18x11’s to track with. One step at a time, I’ll be there.

Looks great. I'm not usually big on the polished lip look but those look right at home on that car.

 

[HI RPM]

So...

I ended up extending the budget for a few dollars and about 6 months. That allowed me to order a set of Forgeline’s. They are beautiful, light, and fit absolutely perfect. No rubs, vibrations, or noise. I’ll link the build thread here

2013 Mustang Boss_302 Profile: Plain Jane - TrackMustangsOnline.com

One of 89 with “zero options”.. View specs, mod list, and build thread for this Mustang and other S197 Mustangs on TMO.

trackmustangsonline.com

...and give you a peek

View attachment 14675

View attachment 14676

I ended up with
19x10 +38 285/35/19
19x11 +52 305/35/19

When I removed the OEM wheels, they had about 7,200 miles on them with the car lowered. The tires showed a noticeable amount of wear on the inside of the tread compared to the rest of the tread. I had an alignment 60 miles after lowering the car, and the front was set at -1.2° and -1.3° in the front. I’ll need camber plates to get it any closer, but I’m not so sure I can’t just live with it, because the car is phenomenal on mountain roads and curvy two lanes. I love it. Clean, predictable, and easy to have fun with.
Hopefully, we can get through this Corn Teen soon enough and I can slap some 200tw tires (I’m leaning towards Rivals; all input is welcome) on the oem wheels and learn what the hell I'm doing.
I would love to have some 18x11’s to track with. One step at a time, I’ll be there.

The wheels and stance looks great.
Did you have to modify the rear bump stop to clear the 305/35 series tires?
Also, which FRPP springs do you have?

 

[Daegoba]

Looks great. I'm not usually big on the polished lip look but those look right at home on that car.

I appreciate that, Luda. I think cars like this with “busy” graphics/stripes/decals need something like a polished/contrast lip to break up the layers on the body. Otherwise, it all kinda overpowers the wheels.
If/when I delete my stripes, I may move to something else.