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So long charger and challenger .

I curious how Ford might respond. There is still a major market for V8 powaaa. Hopefully Ford embraces this opportunity to really push the Mustang. More Mustangs on the road and track! :hellyeah:
But, there could be a downside by sending demand for V8 and parts up. It's all about the bottom dollar with the car manufacturers trying to get everything they can form the government with the energy credits. Ford go ahead do your E line but keep the V8!!!
 
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"Forced out by the Feds" is the real reason, and Motor Trend, Car and Driver and other enthusiast magazine used to occasionally take issue with the prevailing automotive winds, now days they march lockstep into the abyss of automotive BS.
I hearken back to the days of Pat Bedard, (raced a car at Indy) Brock Yates (co founder of the Cannonball run) and David E. Davis automotive fireballs that took no crap from anyone, particularly Washington DC.
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
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Ready to get flamed , but having sold Dodges for 2.5 decades I will stand up for them as they stretched out the lifetime of the Challenger and Charger while foregoing CAFE requirements with these two beasts for well over ten years. Demons, Redeyes, Hellcats, wide bodies, etc. they pushed the power envelope for a very long time while these two machines constituted their entire car product line for quite awhile. The need to switch over to EV ( we sometimes forget this is a Worldwide issue , not something just in the US ) has been slower at Stellantis than any other major Manufacturer, but they have to jump into the fray. Check out the new EV Muscle Car Tim Kuniskis just announced ( google the stunningly beautiful Charger Concept Car just released ) and since he is very much a performance guy like Mulally, the fast, fun beasts are not going to be dead. I don't see the ICE dying off for a couple or decades at the minimum, and we probably need to realize that even Ford says they want to be 40% Electric by 2030, so that means there will be 60% still running on petroleum.
I am 70 and I decided as I aged not to become cynical like a couple of my grandparents became, as well as many friends are today, because one really should realize the next 10-20 years may or may not be in the cards. I won't be hammering the pedal when things finally make a change but right now I can embrace change since it is inevitable and has been since the beginning of the " Industrial Revolution."
Humans do not like change, even when History proves to them how cool it can be and how much they will come to rely and appreciate the advancements, yet we seem to think things are so different in each case that affects us. I remember my Grandfather telling me how much his father railed against the " Horseless Carriage " and how it was screwing up things, scaring the horses and frightening so many people , plus they always got stuck in the mud. My Grandfather was quietly fascinated, never said much, but as things developed and automobiles became the norm, even his father embraced the new technology. As for my Grandfather he became a mechanic and worked on cars his entire life, even owning a Sinclair Station for some years, and as he aged he, like so many during the 70s complained about the dang catalytic converters, the loss of power in cars and that things were getting messed up. Funny, how so many of us forgot that pollution then meant LA had constant air quality issues , along with other parts of the US. We needed to make changes and the need to make cars more efficient and cleaner burning brought us the longest " Real " age of the Muscle Cars. Unlike the 60s and very early 70s, this age of insane power has lasted decades.
So, again, like each small Chapter of Industrial/Technological change, we as always ( some say it is human nature ) complain and worry when most of us could look back at our lives and see things we absolutely don't want to do without and we are even thankful for.
I, for one, have wondered why Nebraska has been asleep, when this State has the most consistent wind average of any State in America, and wind power would be super successful here, yet there has been little advancement. The reason is always simple, power from coal, nuclear or natural gas was too cheap ( electrical rates here are among the lowest in the Country ) so why pursue?
It seems we need some drama for things to move forward, and though most folks have agreed for years we need to move away from coal, the move away from heavy petroleum use has folks in arms. Yet the rational difference is petroleum is used in a zillion different ways, infrastructure is slow, and with the millions of vehicles on the road and the time it will take to phase them out is estimated to be 30-40 years in the future ( if then ).
Love my nasty sounding Mustang, my Viper, my Ram , and my wife's Jeep, but I will get a Hybrid for her next. Why, because the other thing about being old and retired is you become even cheaper ,ha. So , I can go farther , fuel up less and still take long trips. I have to laugh at us ( humans ) because I know many on here grew up reading Popular Mechanics and the search for the real " Holy Grail, " magic fuel economy extenders or ways to run on alternative fuels. Crazy gas mileage improvers were often the rage and I know many of us bought some device that was supposed to help us get insane fuel economy.

Nuff said, I only wish I could live to be 90-95 ( no one in my family made it that far ), because I believe the American consumer will see super fun machines, they will demand many are still interactive , and who knows what will power them? Could we see our grandchildren complaining how obsolete their EVs are because vehicles now run on Nuclear fusion ---- who knows?
 
the other thing about being old and retired is you become even cheaper
I never thought I could become (even) cheaper when I retired but it has come to happen.......the squeaky wheel gets the oil, but an open wallet empties much faster than a closed one buried deep in your pocket..............that should be in Banacek's book of Polish proverbs....................................Good thing I got my Boss while I was still working.....;)
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
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Blair, Nebraska
Ha, ha, Bob, I probably should have said something like you become more aware of available funds and where they should be allocated ---- like towards a new set of tires, ha!
 

JDee

Ancient Racer
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halfway between Mosport and Shannonville
I'm not opposed to electrics, I just don't see them as viable in this country right now other than in urban centers. We've got a shaky hydro grid to start with, adding a few million cars would totally collapse it. And I don't see money flying out of nowhere to fix that plus build more generating capacity. Add in the size of the country and pure electrics don't make sense outside of cities right now.
I bought a new DD last year and I was going to go hybrid, but $12K extra? That just doesn't cash flow at all. Maybe when I buy my next DD in a couple of years it'll be less but right now there's no sign of that happening.
 
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I had a Jeep Trackhawk, an Jeep SRT and Jeep SRT8 and love those power plants. Drive all day long and still couldn’t wait to get back behind the wheel. The advent of electrics opens the door for a few things, I like the idea of driverless for stupid commutes or to keep my aging parents mobile. I’m kinda bummed about how all the younger folks I meet buy the idea that gas is the root of all evil. At any rate I want one of each hellcat, LS, coyote and an self driving electric. I hear flying cars are right around the corner, not sure I’m ready for that!
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
6,842
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Blair, Nebraska
I have faith in the US Govt. and Canadian one too, JDee, as I honestly feel the speed infrastructure actually moves in our two Countries, as opposed to projections, means we rationally have plenty of time before we actually see a ton of EVs or the power to supply them. With all the money being poured into other alternatives, like Hydrogen, who knows where we will actually be in 20-30 years for power output?
 

TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
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The obvious solution is one the left has demonized for decades. Nuclear power as an ADDITION to Fossil fuels. To settle on this obvious solution will require the left to cook up some humble pie and eat it with a smile. I don't see this coming for a While.

Would I put solar panels on my house to produce power for my home, cars and add to the grid? I have already measured the roof. Its doable. Do I want to pay for my system AND the governments Solutions? I can't pay both bills. Why should I? I have a small solar panel system on my race trailer. It keep the batteries charged in my trailer and my cars. WHEN THE SUN SHINES. Solar and wind can never be depended upon for 100% of our power. Even in the Sunny South, the rains come.

The Not So obvious reality is the left likely knows that electric as an only solution is not workable. It will take the right moving to a compromise (Fossil and Electric) while allowing the left to blame the right for doing so. The next obvious step is..........

The blending of power sources for our cars and homes will have to exist until the "Next Solution" is found, assuming that will happen. Mandates and wishful thinking will not provide.

Its a shame GM and Chrysler are "Bowing Out" of the ICE market. Any company remaining will make money from those who MUST have ICE engines. At least I wont have to change brands. :hellyeah:
 
Losing ICE muscle cars direct from the factory will take some getting used to but they will always be around......just at a "slightly" higher price, which will increase as demand does...EV's may become the rage but there's no replacing that V8 rumble when you need to hear it!!!!!!!!!!!!!........A few Mustangs included in the following clip, but not enough....especially my Boss ... LOL.....
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
6,842
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Time Attack
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20+ Years
Blair, Nebraska
I surprisingly don't think this is a left or right blame issue, because I remember the inversions in LA in the 70s and 80s, friends complaining about smog in Phoenix coming from there. I remember spending the 60s in Europe with water undrinkable in so many Countries not due to war but to Industrial pollution not being managed so rivers were dumping grounds. I think Nuclear Power is likely to show some resurgence unless Russia destroys the Plant in Ukraine and that could end that solution. I believe Solar and wind have strong chances to change things, but there has been no need to embrace in the US as we have so much cheap coal, natural gas, etc. , yet there are examples in Europe and even Iowa that is is working quite well -- discussing mainly wind power. We all complain about electrical costs and more, yet we trudge along using the same sources until we are forced to view change. I see that as what is occurring because everyone understood around the Globe that coal was difficult to burn cleanly, but it was cheap and yet Worldwide we are seeing this technology change. Natural gas , hydro, solar, wind, are avenues that should help us provide cheaper energy, and like TMS I believe we need to view Nuclear, again. I don't think I will be around when Fusion is the answer, but I do stop and pause often at how even little things have changed in my lifetime. Take batteries, our little flashlights were lead acid, then alkaline, now lithium and who knows about tomorrow? There is more innovation going on in Battery power and many believe lithium may be a secondary source in much less than a decade, with newer and safer battery power sources coming.
Problems, concerns, issues, we view these with frustration and complaints, because all of us don't really like change when we are comfortable with things as they are, and though I have the same feelings, I have always somewhat perversely enjoyed these world concerns that made us as human beings get innovative. Selling cars on and off for over 30 years I realized that perceived problems or regulations have in reality made cars more exciting than ever. I wonder if all these things would have ever occurred if we had not had gas shortages in the 70s, safety concerns for drivers and passengers, clean air requirements due to air pollution, etc. It made my job super fun, because I could always expect new items, often performance oriented to talk about, and I even remember folks screaming about those damn ABS braking systems. Really it
is funny to me, because I complained to, but the more I enjoyed things from something as small as a three cone synchro making shifts smoother, to crazy stuff like a factory line lock, abilities to turn off all nanny devices , vehicles that could change power modes to go in snow, mud, ice, etc. I had to stop, pause and realize so many things I did not want to occur, I now love. But, I am boring, not left, not right, nor do I blame, because when you are on this Planet for numerous decades you end up not agreeing with either side too many times to remember. You also have periods of reflection where you realize things you did not agree with you do now, regardless of where they came from.

The catalyst for innovation in the United States has so often been determined to solve problems and it seems we need issues to give ourselves a kick in the butt to solve and improve things. I believe we are in that phase now, and pretty hard for folks seeing the water level in places like Lake Mead not to realize it is a wake up call. We will solve all these issues in years to come, because we don't give up!
 

ChrisM

Mostly harmless.
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3-5 Years
SoCal
Bill, can I have just a tenth of your optimism? It might help me sleep better at night.

As for Ford's response, I thought I saw an announcement that they'll be "revealing" the 7th generation Mustang later this month or next month. If it's not electric I'll eat my hat (figuratively speaking). The fart sniffers in the ivory tower just can't help themselves.
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
6,842
5,908
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Blair, Nebraska
Rumors from friends say there may be an Electric Mustang, but there will still be 5 liters and likely a Hybrid. Like the Pony Wars that have occurred since the 60s , Dodge's big preview of a MuscleCar EV means Ford and GM should respond, but with Performance still in the Manufacturer's mind the ICE still has life in it. There have been mutterings for quite awhile that the end of the V8 Mustang is not imminent, and when Ford states they want 40% EV by 2030, I imagine the Stang will be in that 60% that still rumbles.

Easy to be optimistic as I thought the Earth was at the end with stinky Catalytic Converters and lack of HP. I just figure I need to view what has happened in reality in my life and others, not fear of awful things to come. I actually marvel at all the cool stuff Engineers and folks have done once challenged. Pretty fun to go watch Viper V10s on Dynamiters when folks said there was only a year or two left where it could meet EPA requirements, and 10 years later it was still running, and HP increased.
 
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California has banned any future gas station openings (or proposed same), they will not allow you to run natural gas for your house, you must be connected to the grid for all that regulation you get rolling black outs, ignore hydroelectric sources of power , and bullet trains to nowhere. EVs have their place, eventually, but not now. Right now, America runs on diesel, and an attack on internal combustion engines ripples throughout the economy.
 

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