Vorshlag updates

[Fiddler49]

I thought the T springs kit uses the K front springs? Several members posted photos of them. If that's the case the T and K should have identical rates.

Can you explain how you measure the springs and what equipment you're using?

I was thinkin' the same thing... ???

 

[VoodooBoss]

I thought the T springs kit uses the K rear springs? Several members posted photos of them. If that's the case the T and K should have identical rates.

Can you explain how you measure the springs and what equipment you're using?

Here's the photos and link. See post #120. There's no way the Vorshlag numbers are correct for the rear T springs.

https://trackmustangsonline.com/index.php?topic=4475.40

 

[Domestic Product]

I've thought about that kit... I'd like to hear an honest review once you've got 'em. I haven't been able to find any 3rd party reviews at all.

Think these are better than adjustables?

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=tech_struts_shocks_adjust_vs_nonadjust_dampers

Thanks, I will give a totally honest appraisal once I have some track time on them. I do expect that sways and tires need to be part of the equation. Sways, wheels and track tires will have to wait till winter or spring of 14 :-\ . Every one is different but the less I have to mess with stuff and just drive the better.

 

[boro92]

I was just about to say that comp springs are probably trash on even Koni Yellows, would need some serious dampers.

I know we've moved on from this in this thread but FWIW:
Yellows can be valved to deal up to 600lb/in IIRC.
Ground Control sells custom valved Konis matched to rates of your choice.

 

[Domestic Product]

Actually, most spring ratings we read online seem to be rated at almost full compression.

At ride height these are the measurements I took at Vorshlag.
T Springs F127 R180 (Same as stock GT, but lower)
K Springs F188 R221 (Best combo for spring rates and height, must use a stiff front bar)
P Springs F204 R165 (Best spring ratios, but too high for my taste)
2011 GT Brembo F125 R181
2013 GT non-Brembo F110 R150
2012 Laguna Seca F129 R207

Thanks for the info. Going with the K springs with the Vorshlag/Bilstein package. Yes I plan on a sway bar upgrade front and year , white line stuff. I view this as a system of parts. Not just springs. What does Vorshlag think of HR race springs ? my guess is to low and to stiff for the Bilsteins.
MM has the following springs with the Bilsteins http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=514_23_378_402&products_id=1435
A different list for sure. I went with Vorshlag for this set up.

 

[Fat Boss]

For those wondering about the P springs I feel they're a great street spring since they don't drag over EVERYTHING like my H&R race springs do. The trans scoop just hangs low, plus I've got 18's on it right now. On the track they're really good. Do I say great? No, the lower and stiffer springs are better on track, again my feelings. The H&R race springs I have on my new car drag over just about anything and everything if I'm not going 1 MPH and selective of my approach angle. But on the track they're great. I'd rather have the P's and in fact I do have a set in a box in my garage. I also have the Koni Yellows on there and on the advice of a friend ran them with two turns out F and R the car handled great. In addition to the above, my car has a stock Mustang GT rear sway bar, a nice AL double adj panhard bar, BMR relo's, and BMR LCA's. But it's just too low and too rough on the nations 47th ranked streets.

I wish I had a better pic showing how low the car is and the incredible stance, but here's a fun one with it's friends. BTW they all want to grow up to be Mikey's GT. ;D

 

[VTBoss302]

Heritage / Gulf colors are just too cool...

These roots run deep..

;D

 

[modernbeat]

Thanks for the info. Going with the K springs with the Vorshlag/Bilstein package. Yes I plan on a sway bar upgrade front and year , white line stuff. I view this as a system of parts. Not just springs. What does Vorshlag think of HR race springs ? my guess is to low and to stiff for the Bilsteins.
MM has the following springs with the Bilsteins http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=514_23_378_402&products_id=1435
A different list for sure. I went with Vorshlag for this set up.

We've tested some of the aftermarket springs, but not the H&R yet.

 

[Domestic Product]

OK , Bilstein has the back dampers on back order. I will not see them till the end of the month. The White line stuff I believe is ready and will ship first. I will wait and install all together. So it will be back to the track on stock suspension for the 22nd. That's OK I will work on being smooth and staying ahead of the car.
I at this time do not work on my car. I mean I will change the oil and do simple stuff. Have in the past just not set up for it and getting old and lazy. I use a shop up here in the greater Seattle area,
http://www.speedwaremotorsports.com/ they do a great job and have a full service shop. They will be installing all when it comes in. They have a state of the art 4 wheel alignment rack and we will dial in the car after install. Like the way I say "we"
Actually I do hang out sometimes and get in the way as they work on the car.
I will post a up date once Vorshlag gets everything up here and we get it installed. Plan on getting in the way and taking some pictures as we install.

 

[boro92]

Looking forward to your findings, sir!

 

[isrboss]

I'm curious, what is the OP going to report on? He is using a spring multiple Mustang owners use, and Bilstein dampers. I was feeling the OP was spending an amount of money I feel to be significant for basic mods, good ones, but basic. What am I missing here, this thread keeps getting a lot of attention so I'm now needing to know what is the magic with this set up?

 

[boro92]

I'm curious, what is the OP going to report on? He is using a spring multiple Mustang owners use, and Bilstein dampers. I was feeling the OP was spending an amount of money I feel to be significant for basic mods, good ones, but basic. What am I missing here, this thread keeps getting a lot of attention so I'm now needing to know what is the magic with this set up?

Honestly, no magic.
It's an affordable setup that's easily attainable by many people.
Curious to know how this performs - the soft springs being the limiting factor. Having owned Bilsteins in the past, I suspect the strut alone will yield quite a difference...but I do still want to hear about it

 

[isrboss]

Okay, I thought I was missing something. I have KW/Eibach coilovers with 314lbs/in front and 246lbs/in rear, the ability to corner balance, set ride height where ever I want and got -1.8 camber with the slotted struts. all for $800 shipped new. If I were to run race tires on track I would need to add camber plates, but on street tires the -1.8 is working great.

 

[boro92]

Okay, I thought I was missing something. I have KW/Eibach coilovers with 314lbs/in front and 246lbs/in rear, the ability to corner balance, set ride height where ever I want and got -1.8 camber with the slotted struts. all for $800 shipped new. If I were to run race tires on track I would need to add camber plates, but on street tires the -1.8 is working great.

Wait...WHAT?
How did you score that price? Was it a clearance deal?
That's excellent. Sounds like you are using Eibach springs with KW struts I presume.
Is this the Roush setup that they were clearing a while ago? IIRC I believe ArizonaGT runs that.

And for the record, I have my eye on Eibach's Multi pro R1/2 But I'd like to read unbiased thoughts on most any setup anyway!

 

[isrboss]

Champion Mustang was running a great deal. They are Eibach Pro Street S for the 05-10 S197, those kits come with better spring rates than all the new stuff. I would have got the GT500 model, because they come with 400lbs/in front and 275lbs/in rear, but the price was too good on the GT.

Just in case you don't know MM will special order the R1/2 kits with what spring rates you want. I spoke with Eibach and they stated MM does a lot of that and recommended I work with them to find the best rates for me. MM also has a new track kit in testing right now, and it sounds like a similar set up like what the OP is purchasing form Vorshlag.

 

[boro92]

Champion Mustang was running a great deal. They are Eibach Pro Street S for the 05-10 S197, those kits come with better spring rates than all the new stuff. I would have got the GT500 model, because they come with 400lbs/in front and 275lbs/in rear, but the price was too good on the GT.

Just in case you don't know MM will special order the R1/2 kits with what spring rates you want. I spoke with Eibach and they stated MM does a lot of that and recommended I work with them to find the best rates for me. MM also has a new track kit in testing right now, and it sounds like a similar set up like what the OP is purchasing form Vorshlag.

Man!
Good info. I had no idea MM will special order with any spring rate. This is wonderrrrrrrrful and saves some bucks, as the standard rates on r1/r2 are really not suited to my intended uses. Thanks for the tip!

 

[isrboss]

Man!
Good info. I had no idea MM will special order with any spring rate. This is wonderrrrrrrrful and saves some bucks, as the standard rates on r1/r2 are really not suited to my intended uses. Thanks for the tip!

I know I was floored to hear that as well, then I confirmed with MM. The GT500 spring rates are still about spot on though at the 400f/275r with the R1/2 right off the shelve and they come with a upper mount, so should be a bolt in. I got lucky with my Pro Street kit, it is a KW V1 with red springs. Track duty with these is very good as well on the street, I just don't have the bump/rebound adj.

 

[Domestic Product]

Okay, I thought I was missing something. I have KW/Eibach coilovers with 314lbs/in front and 246lbs/in rear, the ability to corner balance, set ride height where ever I want and got -1.8 camber with the slotted struts. all for $800 shipped new. If I were to run race tires on track I would need to add camber plates, but on street tires the -1.8 is working great.

OP here, that is a great deal on the KWs. Had KWv3s on my M3 and they were great. What is your ride height with the coil overs and what kind of corner weight distribution did you get?
Yes the point of this OP was to show a good solid low cost, proven option for the car. Just one option of many. The fun part about this is every one has a different set up. Yes there are nicer, firmer, better set ups out there. All costing a lot more IMO. Vorshlag has them as well. I spent a lot of time looking and comparing set ups. This is the third car I have set up for track use. I'm trying to hit the sweet spot, not to soft and not to hard and not spend too much. I want to enjoy the car on the street and the track. The package will not be complete till we get the sways on front and year. I expect to be pleased as the car is not bad in stock form.
Thanks for everyone's input.

 

[isrboss]

OP here, that is a great deal on the KWs. Had KWv3s on my M3 and they were great. What is your ride height with the coil overs and what kind of corner weight distribution did you get?
Yes the point of this OP was to show a good solid low cost, proven option for the car. Just one option of many. The fun part about this is every one has a different set up. Yes there are nicer, firmer, better set ups out there. All costing a lot more IMO. Vorshlag has them as well. I spent a lot of time looking and comparing set ups. This is the third car I have set up for track use. I'm trying to hit the sweet spot, not to soft and not to hard and not spend too much. I want to enjoy the car on the street and the track. The package will not be complete till we get the sways on front and year. I expect to be pleased as the car is not bad in stock form.
Thanks for everyone's input.

It's all personal preference really. The price of the part does not make the car faster on the track without a driver willing to push it there. I did not set the ride height that low, approx. -.3 front and -1.4 rear. Any lower and you will need to address geometry with more parts. I just made it to the point where I may take it to have it corner balanced, if I get bored. I just recently got adj. front sway link, and wanted those prior to corner balance and new alignment.
Quick story
I made a front sway adj prior to my last track day, and it was a great move. The car understeers more than I like now, but the confidence through high speed corners is much better. My lap times were over 4 sec better than last (I was loose last), but it was just my second time to the track. I decided to lower the front ride height one turn to counter some of the understeer.

This is another reason why I like the coilovers over the standard strut/ spring. I like to research find ways to fight understeer/oversteer then walk to the garage and jack the car and lower or raise the front or rear, in small increments.

 

[patrickshelby]

Nice to see some actual data! 8)

But don't the P/K (and presumably T) springs jump up in rate in even the next half inch to inch of compression travel? All the Boss and Brembo GT springs that I've seen look rather linear.

Right!
If the T springs were just rated like stock GT springs and just be shorter (lower) they would bottom out at the first compression...and be unusable.
There must be more to it, it seems we are not comparing the same ways of rating a spring.