Thoughts on how my Pagid 29’s are wearing

[mpgainer]

Looking for opinions on how my Pagid 29’s are wearing on my Mach 1. I’ve been using stock pads until now, and they’ve held up surprisingly well. I bedded in the new pads on the old rotors, then decided I needed new rotors after a few track days (8 sessions) on the new pads. The pedal was feeling rough and the rotors were looking worn like an old record. I put new Giro discs upfront and stock rotors in the back. I then properly bedded the rotors per Giro’s instructions. The braking power is fantastic. Smooth and strong. No complaints there. I pulled the pads after my last track day as I typically do as part of my normal maintenance checks. They have about 12 sessions (not days) on them. There’s plenty of thickness to the pads, and the rotors look fine, but I don’t recall my old pads wearing like this. The spots and cracks (maybe?) got my attention. Both fronts look the same. The rears are less worn as you’d expect. This is my first set of race pads so I’m not sure what to expect. Does that look normal? Thanks in advance for the input!

 

[thelostotter]

If they were mine I would scrape the loose paint off where the pistons touch and put them back in. If they are developing any taper I'd install them with the thicker side on the bottom.

 

[bnight]

If they were mine I would scrape the loose paint off where the pistons touch and put them back in. If they are developing any taper I'd install them with the thicker side on the bottom.

they look really glazed so I'm guessing they are not temp appropriate for the Mustang.

 

[mpgainer]

Glazed seems to make sense. I considered a higher temp pad but took the advice of a few fellow track friends that had good experiences with the 29s - but they’re not driving 3,900 lb cars. I’ve also been braking later and harder because the grip is there.

 

[JAJ]

What I'm seeing is pads that have been run very hot. RSL29's are exceptional race pads so they can take it, but their condition is a result of going in deep and getting hard on the brakes late. Braking that way generates a huge amount of heat at a time when you're not moving fast enough for air from the brake ducts to keep the temperatures down. There is a way to change all this and it's the "trail braking" technique. It's an endurance racing approach to brake management that gets a lot more life out of your brakes, and if you do it properly, you'll go in, through and out of corners faster too.

 

[mpgainer]

What I'm seeing is pads that have been run very hot. RSL29's are exceptional race pads so they can take it, but their condition is a result of going in deep and getting hard on the brakes late. Braking that way generates a huge amount of heat at a time when you're not moving fast enough for air from the brake ducts to keep the temperatures down. There is a way to change all this and it's the "trail braking" technique. It's an endurance racing approach to brake management that gets a lot more life out of your brakes, and if you do it properly, you'll go in, through and out of corners faster too.

I appreciate the input. I’m definitely not trail braking yet. I’m in my third season of HPDE days and have a lot to learn. I’m braking as you described. I get hard on the brakes coming up to the turn-in and just maintain throttle through the apex. The brakes are so good that I often catch up to other drivers approaching turns because I can carry my speed longer and brake late. Great method for chewing through expensive brake pads…

 

[TMSBOSS]

What do you have regarding brake cooling? Ducts or deflectors?

 

[mpgainer]

What do you have regarding brake cooling? Ducts or deflectors?

Here’s a picture. I guess I’d call that a duct from the front grill, but it stops right there so who knows how much air makes it to the brakes. It came from the factory that way.

 

[TMSBOSS]

My 350R had similar ducts. I added brake deflectors from Vorshlag

Vorshlag S550 Brake Cooling Deflector Kit

Vorshlag has offered "ducted hose" style brake cooling backing plates, inlet ducts, and tubing for a number of cars for many years. This is how you cooled the brakes for track use for many decades. Well there are issues doing that, namely the corrugated hose have some serious flow restrictions...

vorshlag-store.com

 

[mpgainer]

Perfect. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[BOSSLS562]

Here is my thoughts on what I have seen with Pagid 29’s with GiroDisc rotors. I have run them on my 2017 GT350R since 2018 with & without air deflectors, running four- three day events a year in advance group. I've had one set end up looking like that after that I add GiroDisc Titanium Pad Shields to isolate heat from caliper pistons to prevent them holding all that heat resulting less hot spots on the pads.

 

[GAR944]

What I'm seeing is pads that have been run very hot. RSL29's are exceptional race pads so they can take it, but their condition is a result of going in deep and getting hard on the brakes late. Braking that way generates a huge amount of heat at a time when you're not moving fast enough for air from the brake ducts to keep the temperatures down. There is a way to change all this and it's the "trail braking" technique. It's an endurance racing approach to brake management that gets a lot more life out of your brakes, and if you do it properly, you'll go in, through and out of corners faster too.

This was my though as well. They have got HOT. I am also running RSL29's on a stock engine 17GT. The difference being i opted to upgrade the brakes to GT350 calipers and rotors. I was told by my local guys that it was required for the car to survive a 20 minute sprint session. Mine definitely don't look like that. Agree with @JAJ that standing the car on its nose because the pads and tyres can do it is a wonderful feeling but puts an incredible amount of energy into a smaller thermal mass than a 350 rotor. Your peak temperatures will be higher and probably stay higher with repeated operations.

My suggestions mirror those of others above.
Brake deflectors to direct as much air into the wheel as possible for removing heat out of the system. This is the most cost effective upgrade. If you can take heat out of the system between brake applications you are more likely to not "cook" the system till nearer the end of a session. I'm pretty sure a couple of applications aren't overheating the pads, it's the cumulative result of more and more heat in and not enough out that is getting the temps.

Change of driving style. This relates to car setup as well. Checked your vehicle sheet and its pretty much stock. As you also mentioned, it's a bloody heavy car that is being asked to do things the STREET version wasn't designed to for extended periods. A competent track setup will allow you to hold more corner speed and potentially not brake as much, you may also brake just as hard from a higher max speed to a higher corner speed. May allow slow speed sections to be a dab on the brakes rather than a full application. Anything to reduce the time on the brake pedal. If you are doing just track days then you always have the option of a few hot laps then a cooldown lap then a few hot laps to help manage the thermal requirements of the whole vehicle.

Bigger brake setup if you are going to do this regularly. And by bigger i mean more thermal mass, not necessarily diameter. Lots of options in that rabbit hole.

And for the redneck version, i have done this on another time attack car running stock small brakes, windscreen washer supply to micro sprinkler spray heads that sprayed a fine mist up the rotor ventilation slots whenever the brake pedal was pressed. Always amusing when told my car was leaking when parked as the system would slowly drain the lines after the pump leaving puddles. Lets not go there for the mustang.

 

[mpgainer]

GiroDisc Titanium Pad Shields to isolate heat from caliper pistons to prevent them holding all that heat resulting less hot spots on the pads.

Very good suggestion. Didn't know those existed. Makes sense given the signs of excessive heat on the back of the pads. Thank you.

My suggestions mirror those of others above.
Brake deflectors to direct as much air into the wheel as possible for removing heat out of the system. This is the most cost effective upgrade. If you can take heat out of the system between brake applications you are more likely to not "cook" the system till nearer the end of a session. I'm pretty sure a couple of applications aren't overheating the pads, it's the cumulative result of more and more heat in and not enough out that is getting the temps.

Change of driving style. This relates to car setup as well. Checked your vehicle sheet and its pretty much stock. As you also mentioned, it's a bloody heavy car that is being asked to do things the STREET version wasn't designed to for extended periods. A competent track setup will allow you to hold more corner speed and potentially not brake as much, you may also brake just as hard from a higher max speed to a higher corner speed. May allow slow speed sections to be a dab on the brakes rather than a full application. Anything to reduce the time on the brake pedal. If you are doing just track days then you always have the option of a few hot laps then a cooldown lap then a few hot laps to help manage the thermal requirements of the whole vehicle.

Bigger brake setup if you are going to do this regularly. And by bigger i mean more thermal mass, not necessarily diameter. Lots of options in that rabbit hole.

And for the redneck version, i have done this on another time attack car running stock small brakes, windscreen washer supply to micro sprinkler spray heads that sprayed a fine mist up the rotor ventilation slots whenever the brake pedal was pressed. Always amusing when told my car was leaking when parked as the system would slowly drain the lines after the pump leaving puddles. Lets not go there for the mustang.

You're correct, it's essentially stock. I pulled the back seats, added a half-cage, lighter wheels (Apex), lighter rotors (Giro), and did an engine tune (Lund). I'm also running about 2.9 degrees of camber up front using Vorshlag camber plates, but all 3,900+ pounds and factory parts are still there. And yes, I'm just doing track days so some intermingled cool down laps would likely help. Probably the most important would be some additional instruction to improve my driving. I'm certain that I brake too hard into corners and lean on my brakes to compensate for my lack of technique. I love the idea of spraying the brakes with the windshield washer system... genious!