Suspension bushing design between OEM rubber and solid spherical???

[ShifterX]

So admittedly, I have been out of the Mustang game for awhile. My last outing was with a SN95 car that I cut my teeth learning suspension tuning. I remember the importance of picking the right control arm bushing design to allow the factory 4-link to add compliance yet control axle movements.

Fast forward to today and my new project is a 2011 GT/CS that will be tuned for street/track. Digging into the options to restore the tired OEM suspension has me looking at all the potential options for control arm bushings. NVH is a concern but an even higher priority is minimize unintended rate increases (binding). I know the spherical design will accommodate the movement but add NVH. The OEM bushings will be good with NVH, but struggle to locate the axle once sticky tires and high spring/damper rates are added. Is there something in between that I am missing? Assuming Poly and Delrin won't accommodate the articulation needed and will probably add NVH anyway.

This question can also apply to the upper link, panhard bar and front control arms.

Appreciate your insights.

 

[blacksheep-1]

So admittedly, I have been out of the Mustang game for awhile. My last outing was with a SN95 car that I cut my teeth learning suspension tuning. I remember the importance of picking the right control arm bushing design to allow the factory 4-link to add compliance yet control axle movements.

Fast forward to today and my new project is a 2011 GT/CS that will be tuned for street/track. Digging into the options to restore the tired OEM suspension has me looking at all the potential options for control arm bushings. NVH is a concern but an even higher priority is minimize unintended rate increases (binding). I know the spherical design will accommodate the movement but add NVH. The OEM bushings will be good with NVH, but struggle to locate the axle once sticky tires and high spring/damper rates are added. Is there something in between that I am missing? Assuming Poly and Delrin won't accommodate the articulation needed and will probably add NVH anyway.

This question can also apply to the upper link, panhard bar and front control arms.

Appreciate your insights.

The S197 mustangs are light years ahead of the Mickey Mouse triangulated 4 link that we were delt with. I agree, they were total misery, I have written articles on them including them poor man's 3 link.
Relatively speaking, those nightmares are over.
You can actually " out trick" yourself with the S197. Some of the fastest S197s ran a stock rubber upper, Ford Racing lower trailing arms and coil overs ( which if you have a street car, I would not recomend).
Ford Performance are my go to guys, with Cortex being #2. The FP kits are designed to work together and are relatively inexpensive, especially when.purchased as a complete kit.
I would recomend the search button for project superbeater and Billy Johnsons article on a budget build
Plenty of stuff on here.

 

[ShifterX]

Appreciate the insights. It seems most I have seen use a spherical design. My thought is go that route or stick with ford rubber. Am I right I thinking those control arms with the block of poly at both ends do not accommodate enough rotational (twisting) compliance?

 

[67GTA]

Appreciate the insights. It seems most I have seen use a spherical design. My thought is go that route or stick with ford rubber. Am I right I thinking those control arms with the block of poly at both ends do not accommodate enough rotational (twisting) compliance?

There’s combo units available as well - poly on the chassis side/spherical on the axle side. I ran this setup when my car was still street legal. In fact, I have the J&M lower arms and relocation brackets that could use a good home if you decide to go that route (both are red). This kept the NVH to minimum while allowing better articulation on the axle side.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Appreciate the insights. It seems most I have seen use a spherical design. My thought is go that route or stick with ford rubber. Am I right I thinking those control arms with the block of poly at both ends do not accommodate enough rotational (twisting) compliance?

There is some to be gained by using different lower trailing arms, IMO there is nothing to be gained by changing out the center link, as long as it is in good shape.

 

[stevbd]

The OEM bushings will be good with NVH, but struggle to locate the axle once sticky tires and high spring/damper rates are added.

I have a 2011 GT that is set up for street and track, daily commuter. Following advice here on TMO, I use an upgraded PHB and LCA (I currently have Maximum Motorsports but lots of brands will work) and an OEM upper 3rd link and this setup works very well. It's maybe a little counter-intuitive but the key in the rear is to use relatively soft spring/bar rates combinedf with upgraded dampers with plenty of rebound control. Use a small rear bar (~18 mm) or none at all. This gives a great ride on the street and awesome rear axle control. On track the back end stays behind you, you can absolutely eat up curbing, and you can put power down amazingly well off the apex. See @blacksheep-1's videos of the Phoenix S197 to watch a pro using this type of basic setup, super fun to watch. It feels a little weird at first and you have to keep weight on the nose getting down to the apex but it's easy to drive and really fast.

In the front, be aware that in our 2011's an aftermarket control arm bushing will likely cause a bad feedback loop in the electric steering rack that causes severe steering wheel shudder. Either leave that bushing stock or swap in a Boss rack, or maybe a later year '13 or '14 rack. Your mod money is much better spent replacing the upper spring perches with good camber plates from Vorshlag which do all sorts of awesome things and are perfectly streetable IMO.

Good luck and welcome.

 

[Theviking]

You can actually "out trick" yourself with the S197. Some of the fastest S197s ran a stock rubber upper, Ford Racing lower trailing arms and coil overs ( which if you have a street car, I would not recommend).
Ford Performance are my go to guys, with Cortex being #2. The FP kits are designed to work together and are relatively inexpensive, especially when purchased as a complete kit.
I would recommend the search button for project superbeater and Billy Johnsons article on a budget build
Plenty of stuff on here.

Curious why you wouldn't recommend coil-overs on the street? I current run a Cortex setup on my car.

 

[ShifterX]

There is some to be gained by using different lower trailing arms, IMO there is nothing to be gained by changing out the center link, as long as it is in good shape.

My research led me to the same thought on the 3rd link. The Roush link looks like an interesting compromise, but is not really available. Ford does not make a poly or spherical 3rd link, correct? I trust them most when it comes to what not to do. My plan is the leave it original or replace with OEM.

Back to the trailing arms, my suspicion is to stay away from poly. Between rubber or spherical, which direction would you go?

 

[ShifterX]

I have a 2011 GT that is set up for street and track, daily commuter. Following advice here on TMO, I use an upgraded PHB and LCA (I currently have Maximum Motorsports but lots of brands will work) and an OEM upper 3rd link and this setup works very well. It's maybe a little counter-intuitive but the key in the rear is to use relatively soft spring/bar rates combinedf with upgraded dampers with plenty of rebound control. Use a small rear bar (~18 mm) or none at all. This gives a great ride on the street and awesome rear axle control. On track the back end stays behind you, you can absolutely eat up curbing, and you can put power down amazingly well off the apex. See @blacksheep-1's videos of the Phoenix S197 to watch a pro using this type of basic setup, super fun to watch. It feels a little weird at first and you have to keep weight on the nose getting down to the apex but it's easy to drive and really fast.

In the front, be aware that in our 2011's an aftermarket control arm bushing will likely cause a bad feedback loop in the electric steering rack that causes severe steering wheel shudder. Either leave that bushing stock or swap in a Boss rack, or maybe a later year '13 or '14 rack. Your mod money is much better spent replacing the upper spring perches with good camber plates from Vorshlag which do all sorts of awesome things and are perfectly streetable IMO.

Good luck and welcome.

Thank you, appreciate the response. Most of my track work was with a S2000 with 265s and springs in the 650lbs range. Those cars can take a lot of rear spring as long as the damping was right. Bottom line is I will be learning a new driving style with the Mustang. Short corners and long straights!

Anyway the way you describe your setup was exactly what I was thinking. Going into my setup plan, and knowing my previous mistakes with SN95 cars, I know I want to keep the rear axle "loose" or free to move. However I don't want to add a bunch of NVH. MM was a company I was thinking about going with. Maybe using their road and track box. How much NVH did the control arms add?

 

[mwjscn]

Ford does not make a poly or spherical 3rd link, correct?

Steeda does make a spherical 3rd link diff bushing replacement, which gives you the articulation of a spherical end while keeping the OEM upper link. I haven't used it, so this isn't a testimonial, I just know it's available on the market.

Steeda Mustang Upper Third Link Spherical Differential Bearing (2005-2014)

Steedas CNC billet spherical upper third link control arm bearing fits S197 Mustang 8.8" Ford differential solid rear ends. Made in America from 1018 steel, it fits into the OE diff ear eliminating binding, increasing articulation & wont deflect like ru

www.steeda.com

 

[blacksheep-1]

Curious why you wouldn't recommend coil-overs on the street? I current run a Cortex setup on my car.

Maintenance mostly. you need to pull them off and go through them at least every 20K miles, the trick Penskes are now over $10K and they live on the shock dyno after every race. The Cortex (or JRY or whatver) are a decent compromise but anything south of about $5K is probably not a quality piece, so it's really up to you, if you can handle the maintenance, then there are advantages there, if not then I would stay with the seperated spring /shock affair
.With regards to the suspension..

Ford Performance Mustang Assembled Handling Pack M-FR3A-MGTA (05-14 Mustang GT Coupe) - Free Shipping

FREE SHIPPING! Track Car Handling. Lowering springs alone are fine to change the appearance of your Mustang, but if you want your GT to handle like a true track

www.americanmuscle.com

2011 FORD MUSTANG Ford Performance Parts M-5649-R1 Ford Performance Parts Lower Control Arms | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Ford Performance Parts Lower Control Arms with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Control Arms at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

Mustang Caster Camber Plates, 2011-2014

you're gonna need a jig to cut out that upper strut tower, I can loan you one if needed.


What I've posted with be a great starting point, once you get soem fat tires on it and drive it, you can go from there. You really.. really need to forget about the old SN95 suspension layout, it sucked, we all had to live with it, but absolutely NOTHING that you have learned there is applicable to the S197 platform.

 

[ShifterX]

Yes I have got to let the old days go. Boxing the oem control arms and stuffing them with rock hard poly at all ends was a bad move.

However it seems the answer to the thread title is yes, it’s polyurethane. Won’t that add suspension rate compared to both the oem rubber and spherical? Or did ford select a durometer level to mitigate bind?

 

[blacksheep-1]

Yes I have got to let the old days go. Boxing the oem control arms and stuffing them with rock hard poly at all ends was a bad move.

However it seems the answer to the thread title is yes, it’s polyurethane. Won’t that add suspension rate compared to both the oem rubber and spherical? Or did ford select a durometer level to mitigate bind?

Thos pieces I listed, we had to use in the Pirelli World Challenge cars, we had the option of using a stock or ..(I think) FP center link and you could use relocation kits as I recall. We used none of that, the stock or Gt500 upper, the FP trailing arms and no relocation brackets. is what we raced with. All the magic was in the Penske shocks, a shock dyno and AJ who drove the car. You should watch those videos I posted, there's nothing "tight" about that car.

 

[ShifterX]

Mustang Caster Camber Plates, 2011-2014

you're gonna need a jig to cut out that upper strut tower, I can loan you one if needed.

Says no drilling or cutting required. Is this for more adjustment range?

 

[blacksheep-1]

Says no drilling or cutting required. Is this for more adjustment range?

They're being optimistic, I have mm plates and I had to cut the towers for max camber.

 

[stevbd]

How much NVH did the control arms add?

There is more road noise but it's hard to quantify or attribute to just one part. In addition to the MM LCA, which have heim joints at both ends, I also have double heim joints on the PHB, plus "outboard" Cortex coilovers which have heim joints on both ends and are solidly mounted to the car body, the Vorshlag front camber plates, and GT500 mufflers.

With all this, Michelin MPSS 275/40/18, and a 3.31/1 rear axle, I measured about 75 db at 70 mph cruising on asphalt using a free db app on my phone, held between the front seats. It all adds up and that is borderline too loud imo. You can easily talk with a passenger, listen to music or talk shows, I do client calls from the car.... but it's definitely louder than stock and personally I wouldn't want to go much louder. It's all subjective though, and I'm a middle age guy so I'm probably a wimp about it.

 

[ShifterX]

There is more road noise but it's hard to quantify or attribute to just one part. In addition to the MM LCA, which have heim joints at both ends, I also have double heim joints on the PHB, plus "outboard" Cortex coilovers which have heim joints on both ends and are solidly mounted to the car body, the Vorshlag front camber plates, and GT500 mufflers.

With all this, Michelin MPSS 275/40/18, and a 3.31/1 rear axle, I measured about 75 db at 70 mph cruising on asphalt using a free db app on my phone, held between the front seats. It all adds up and that is borderline too loud imo. You can easily talk with a passenger, listen to music or talk shows, I do client calls from the car.... but it's definitely louder than stock and personally I wouldn't want to go much louder. It's all subjective though, and I'm a middle age guy so I'm probably a wimp about it.

Unless there is some other goldilocks option, I am leaning more toward factory rubber or poly. I am sure even with strategically placed poly there will be some NVH increase. My noise tolerance is pretty low. Plus I am presently surprised how few squeaks and rattles there are now. If it was more of a track rat car, I would go spherical. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[ShifterX]

To answer my own question I found two other companies doing something different.

CorteX 2005-2014 Mustang Xtreme-Grip™ Rear Lower Control Arm & Relocation Bracket System - Street

CLCA-40-2000S

www.cortexracing.com

Cortex is using a Johnny joint which is kind of a poly lined spherical. Dampens NVH compared to metal on metal but has little deflection. Only downside I see to these is the price.

KTA195 Whiteline Control arm - lower arm

The S197 chassis' stock lower control arms leave much to be desired and contribute to the inherent traction and wheel hop problems from the factory. Whiteline's adjustable lower control arms are made from tubular DOM steel with Forged Rod Ends for optimal strength and feature our Giiro bushings...

whitelineperformance.com

Whiteline is an interesting company. They seem to offer well engineered products at a decent price. They offer LCAs with a Giiro joint. It looks like a multi durometer rubber/poly design. It appears more flexible than poly. However unlike OEM style rubber bushing that "wind up", the inner sleeve freely rotates in the bushing. Not sure if this is exactly the same one...

The GIIRO Bushing | Clayton Offroad

Introducing GIIRO, with it structured anatomy and superior isolator technology, GIIRO has bridged the void between rubber and flex joints for the ultimate touring bushing.

www.claytonoffroad.com

Certainly interesting because it is unique. Don't think its well proven in this application though.

 

[stevbd]

@ShifterX this is what I am using:

MM Aluminum Rear Control Arms, 2005-2014 Mustang

To be clear, there is more tire and road noise transmitted into the cabin due to all the mods I did. But there are absolutely no squeaks, rattles, or clunks. I don't think you would find much of an increase in road noise using these LCA in isolation. I don't want to give the wrong impression that it's a loud clattering track rat car. For comparison sake, my friend measured a similar sound level to my car in his new Porsche GT4. And that's where the similarities between our cars end!

 

[Theviking]

Maintenance mostly. you need to pull them off and go through them at least every 20K miles, the trick Penskes are now over $10K and they live on the shock dyno after every race. The Cortex (or JRY or whatver) are a decent compromise but anything south of about $5K is probably not a quality piece, so it's really up to you, if you can handle the maintenance, then there are advantages there, if not then I would stay with the separated spring /shock affair
.With regards to the suspension..

Thanks for the feedback. I knew that going in but in my case the car is always down for the winter anyway so not a big deal. I check the seals/shaft for leaks before every event but not sure if that's really a sufficient indicator. Not a racecar (just track days) and I only run a few thousand miles per year so I'd surmise it's something I should just do on a timed schedule anyway.