Two wheel bench racing

[funksouljon]

@RES_22 and anyone else....

One day I will get the TL1000R off the stand and get the motor sorted. My "misspent" youth was mid-20s racing in the SE, Daytona up to VIR. Barber was built after I stopped but Jennings, Roebling, Road A, VIR, were our primary stops. Many a weekend spent up and down the east coast living up life in my 20s. Too big, slow and aware of my mortality (aka chicken) to ever actually compete for titles etc. But it was a good time.

This is one of the best shots from back in the day.



These days, this is how she sits, waiting for a revival.

 

[funksouljon]

@Bill Pemberton , you mentioned the ex-bike racers being competent in cars. I've thought about that some. I bet a big part of it is already knowing how to find a spot and hit it over and over for consistent laps. there were some turns that when my knee would just graze the curbing after a mark, I knew I was going to get a good run out of the turn and have to adjust for more speed going across the tar snakes into the next turn. Margin for error and precision points are so small.

I also expect that being wrapped in a cage really helps reduce the time and brain power spent on "oh crap, I might die". I've had that thought on a motorcycle and it is a distraction. Now, to be clear, I have so much to learn and so much room for improvement in the Mustang (it def goes fast enough to kill), but all that metal and safety around is very settling.

Im looking forward to this year in Blood (it's what my kids named the car ), and definitely trying to get some instructor led seat time. My boss is an ex-BMW instructor so trying to see if a group of us from work can do a track day at HPR.

 

[RES_22]

Black numbers...pro?

Did most/all the midwest, central, northeast and mid-Atlantic tracks for years but never got south of Road Atlanta or west of Phoenix ". Lots of fun just the same.

Found" cars at the end of the bike days, thankfully. So much easier on the body than bikes...although my wife was pretty pi$$ed when I bought a track car the season after I sold all my bike stuff...hilarious.

A buddy has a Duc 1200 - maybe a Multistrada? Don't know much about street bikes and content in my ignornce lolol.

 

[RES_22]

I also expect that being wrapped in a cage really helps reduce the time and brain power spent on "oh crap, I might die".

Hit a tree with your body after a highside...you hurt (done that).

Hit a tree with a race car...tree hurts.

Whole different perspective on risk management lol.

 

[funksouljon]

Black numbers...pro?

Did most/all the midwest, central, northeast and mid-Atlantic tracks for years but never got south of Road Atlanta or west of Phoenix ". Lots of fun just the same.

Found" cars at the end of the bike days, thankfully. So much easier on the body than bikes...although my wife was pretty pi$$ed when I bought a track car the season after I sold all my bike stuff...hilarious.

A buddy has a Duc 1200 - maybe a Multistrada? Don't know much about street bikes and content in my ignornce lolol.

Oh heck no, yellow amateur plates, they didn't care about the number color. Whites for the experts.

 

[funksouljon]

Hit a tree with your body after a highside...you hurt (done that).

Hit a tree with a race car...tree hurts.

Whole different perspective on risk management lol.

YOU hit a tree! I hit a tree! Ran wide at Roebling and tried to save it. Wedged the bike between two trees and I kept going. Broke my humorous and have the plate to show it. Def different perspective on risk.

 

[RES_22]

Snowy North - black was pro, red was amateur. All on a white bckground. Never noticed a difference in US...hmmm.

We used to test the new stuff each spring at Roebling...nice track (flat, safe). Sometimes at Moroso MP (swamp)... not so nice.

You're lucky that you kept going...shedding energy. Keith Code would say to "get away from the ¥`%$??@ thing...don't let it take you where it's going". Really good advice, in retrospect.

Trees, walls, etc. at a few places..things weren't as safety oriented when dinosaurs roamed the pits...lol.

 

[Dave_W]

I bet a big part of it is already knowing how to find a spot and hit it over and over for consistent laps.

Chiming in - I think that's part of it, but I also think that bike racers have developed higher-precision "butt gyros" that helps them sense the small g-load and steering feel changes that signal the edge of tire adhesion.

I always think of John Surtees when the motorcycle-to-car racing topic comes up.

 

[funksouljon]

Chiming in - I think that's part of it, but I also think that bike racers have developed higher-precision "butt gyros" that helps them sense the small g-load and steering feel changes that signal the edge of tire adhesion.

I always think of John Surtees when the motorcycle-to-car racing topic comes up.

Hahaha. Very likely. I describe the concept of a butt dyno to my wife, she doesn't get it. I will say, I can't stand racing games of any sort. Without having that true sense of how the vehicle is moving under you, it just feels far too fake. So I think there is a lot of truth to what you are saying.

There was an interview years ago (I think Aaron Yates?) and they were talking to him about which was harder, racing motorcycles or racing cars, he says something to the effect of "Well, even my mom can drive her minivan fast".

I just want to be clear, I am fast for a street rider who raced, Im not trying to overstate my very limited ability. It is very easy to see how slow you are when you get around the big boys. We were at a Roebling track day one weekend, and I was hauling ass. I was on it that day, best day ever type days. And I got buzzed by a dude who had leather tassels on the back of his sleeves. He went by so fast and so close, I could swear he gave me leather burn. He then sits up and gives me a huge thumbs up as he disappeared down the straight away. That was my up close introduction to Mike Smith (he also raced the Harley Davidson VR1000 sport bike). I was going fast, for me...

 

[funksouljon]

@DaveW , I had to search him to see. Have you seen John Surtees: Built to Win (2021) ?

Any other good movies about him? Also, what did he say? Im googling him now.

 

[RES_22]

I can't stand racing games of any sort. Without having that true sense of how the vehicle is moving under you, it just feels far too fake. So I think there is a lot of truth to what you are saying.

You aren't alone.

The ones that I've tried are really great for keeping your hand in during the off-season or learning a new track or experimenting generally with different reference points. I find (IMHO only), however, that they're not so great for adapting you/your stuff to get the best (real world) time. Not enough feel...limited speed and energy feedback plus lacking all the little bumps, cracks, surface texture changes...many small things. Might be another thing if you spent ~days at it. And the $50k+ rigs could be a different story, too...but that's close to really good used spec Miata/race car money, so it's equally uninteresting in an alternate way.

I always think of John Surtees when the motorcycle-to-car racing topic comes up.

Surtees made the transition epically better than Eddie Lawson, Wayne Gardiner, Mike Hailwood. He was legend/magic. Not sure why those other great champs struggled, but I've always believed that they prolly couldn't re-calibrate (enough) their internal setpoint for front grip trust...sooooo much more entry speed available in any decently prepped race car (especially in an aero car) vs any bike...irrespective of how much $$$ you throw at the front of the bike.

 

[xr7]

This brings back memories from the the past. I been riding for 50 years. First bike was a '70 Kawasaki Mach III 500cc Triple. That thing was a blast to ride. My next one was a Moto Guzzi V7 Sport. Now I had a bike that handled, not the fastest accelerating but very fast, like a Miata, momentum machine. As it will be there was always something better and someone faster I decided to go a different direction and bought a HD Super Glide. I enjoyed riding but my butt dyno told me to slow it down and enjoy the ride. I believe the bikes made me a better driver because you have to concentrate on what everyone else is doing if you want to make it thru the day.

 

[RES_22]

First bike was a '70 Kawasaki Mach III 500cc Triple. That thing was a blast to ride.

Learned to ride on a '75 H2...so I get your perspective. The early 500s were deadly (literally).

Lived on a dirt road. 10 miles either direction to pavement.

Pavement was pretty nice upgrade after messing with that thing on dirt and gravel .

 

[xr7]

Learned to ride on a '75 H2...so I get your perspective. The early 500s were deadly (literally).

Lived on a dirt road. 10 miles either direction to pavement.

Pavement was pretty nice upgrade after messing with that thing on dirt and gravel .

I was looking at those 750 triples and the Z-1 900's great bikes, I ended up buying the Guzzi.
Agree with the gravel crud. Had lots of gravel roads when I was a kid. It did teach me how to slide around corners when on 4 wheels. Bikes = no fun.
Worst gravel was one of my trips to Sturgis. We usually took the backroads to Sturgis instead of the Interstate. We took the north route on the way out. As we were closing in on our destination we ran into a 30 mile stretch where the South Dakota DOT had ground up all the pavement into gravel size bits, the whole f***ing road, like riding thru mud. We made a side trip to Rochford, that road turned into a rubble road a few miles before town, all rocks about the size of baseballs and just like driving on baseballs. So 4-5 days later headed home the southern route and out in the middle of no where we run into another stretch of ground up highway, this time there is a berm running down the middle of the road. About half way thru this mess I come upon a berm pile that's blocking the road. Easy enough to go around but would have been a mess to discover if you were driving a car.

 

[funksouljon]

I was looking at those 750 triples and the Z-1 900's great bikes, I ended up buying the Guzzi.
Agree with the gravel crud. Had lots of gravel roads when I was a kid. It did teach me how to slide around corners when on 4 wheels. Bikes = no fun.
Worst gravel was one of my trips to Sturgis. We usually took the backroads to Sturgis instead of the Interstate. We took the north route on the way out. As we were closing in on our destination we ran into a 30 mile stretch where the South Dakota DOT had ground up all the pavement into gravel size bits, the whole f***ing road, like riding thru mud. We made a side trip to Rochford, that road turned into a rubble road a few miles before town, all rocks about the size of baseballs and just like driving on baseballs. So 4-5 days later headed home the southern route and out in the middle of no where we run into another stretch of ground up highway, this time there is a berm running down the middle of the road. About half way thru this mess I come upon a berm pile that's blocking the road. Easy enough to go around but would have been a mess to discover if you were driving a car.

For us, growing up with red clay roads, then getting never ending rain really helped the learning curve. It translates directly to snow driving. I didn't come to motorcycles until my 20s tho.

 

[TWF]

Chiming in - I think that's part of it, but I also think that bike racers have developed higher-precision "butt gyros" that helps them sense the small g-load and steering feel changes that signal the edge of tire adhesion.

I always think of John Surtees when the motorcycle-to-car racing topic comes up.

I think it is more of racers are racers . It is in blood.
I raced motorcycles for 25 years, got old and decided to do cars just to keep blood flowing. Cars are slow compared to bikes (at least street cars converted to track), everything is happening at slower pace. It can be boring at time. It was easy to switch, already know trade, just different tool.

 

[PatientZero]

I have accumulated all the gear to get on track over the past year. I'm hoping to take the bike out to the track for the first time this summer. I'm more wanting some riding instruction to just make me a better rider. I'm 20 years too late to race motorcycles.
MotoGP is absolutely my favorite motorsport to watch though. The "46" on my car is there because of Valentino Rossi. I'm hoping he succeeds in his car racing venture.

 

[RES_22]

I need to send you some of my c-spine mri films .

Sell the bike and use your profits for a week at Jim Russell or Bondurant. It'll make car track days so much more rewarding and - best of all - it'll keep your body from hating you !

Rossi was great...but Rainey and Doohan...ahhhhhh....

 

[PatientZero]

Rossi was great...but Rainey and Doohan...ahhhhhh....

Ummm... What?

Rossi has more world championships and more race wins than both of them combined. Including a championship on the same 500cc bikes they were riding. No disrespect to them but Rossi is far and away the GOAT.

 

[funksouljon]

Ummm... What?

Rossi has more world championships and more race wins than both of them combined. Including a championship on the same 500cc bikes they were riding. No disrespect to them but Rossi is far and away the GOAT.

Im with this guy!!

My favorite helmet I've ever owned by far.