S650 Booger Sugar Build Thread Profile - S650 Mustangs

[a_almonte]

This is the Build Thread for Bugger Sugar. Reply below.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Nice build and going for less options means having less weight. Great color, but I may be biased as I have had 4 White Mustangs!

 

[Ludachris]

"poverty spec" GT. That's a hilarious way to describe it.

 

[a_almonte]

Got some wheels and tires off of a gt350 (295/30/19 front) (305/30/19 rear). Had to increase the camber up front to 3 degrees to eliminate the poke. I do hate the rear fitment as it’s lookin like a truck

If y’all have any suggestions on parts for more handling feel please feel free to share!

 

[Bill Pemberton]

So how much negative camber do you have in the rear?

 

[a_almonte]

So how much negative camber do you have in the rear?

I got negative 2 degrees in the back now. It was at 1.75 ish but with the added camber up front, I felt like I needed to increase the rear as well. Thank god for the steeda camber arms, hated trying to mess with the stock arm. Changing the toe is the next thing on my to do list

 

[JDee]

You should consider going to 305s on 11s all around. Front heavy cars like our stangs need all the tire you can get up front. And they also need a ton of negative camber, I ran -4 up front and it worked well both for grip and tire wear.

 

[a_almonte]

You should consider going to 305s on 11s all around. Front heavy cars like our stangs need all the tire you can get up front. And they also need a ton of negative camber, I ran -4 up front and it worked well both for grip and tire wear.

In a few months Im planning on getting a set of apex sm-10s to run a squared set up and pairing it with some nankang CRS tires. What camber plates do you run to achieve more camber? At the moment the bmrs seem to max out at around 3ish degrees

 

[JDee]

In a few months Im planning on getting a set of apex sm-10s to run a squared set up and pairing it with some nankang CRS tires. What camber plates do you run to achieve more camber? At the moment the bmrs seem to max out at around 3ish degrees

I had Vorshlags on my last car, could get -4 with them without doing much massaging. Three is not all that bad though.

 

[JDee]

I just bought a set of Apex sm-10s and am mounting 305 30 19s on them. This setup needs a spacer around 22 to 25mm.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

I had 315s on my Mach at one time and a 25mm spacer works well on a 19x11 Apex wheel. I got right at -2.8 with the factory handling package camber plate, but like JDee I got more than 3 with Vorshlags in the past. That said I was getting good tire wear with -2.8 up front with the factory plates on HP Mach 1. If I had a regular Mach 1, I would opt for a Vorshlag over the getting a stock Ford camber plate, though.

 

[Tonymustang302]

I have 18x11’s on my racecar and 31mm up front

 

[a_almonte]

I just bought a set of Apex sm-10s and am mounting 305 30 19s on them. This setup needs a spacer around 22 to 25mm.

Ive got a set of ARP extended studs and slip on 25mm spacers from OPMustang. Its not needed for my current setup since the front gt350 wheels have an offset of 30mm. Glad I kept them from my previous s550

 

[a_almonte]

I had 315s on my Mach at one time and a 25mm spacer works well on a 19x11 Apex wheel. I got right at -2.8 with the factory handling package camber plate, but like JDee I got more than 3 with Vorshlags in the past. That said I was getting good tire wear with -2.8 up front with the factory plates on HP Mach 1. If I had a regular Mach 1, I would opt for a Vorshlag over the getting a stock Ford camber plate, though.

The vorshlag plates will be on my parts list down the line if I see that 3 degrees is not enough

 

[a_almonte]

I have 18x11’s on my racecar and 31mm up front

Im torn between 18's or 19's. the 18s have more tire selection and less rotating mass but the 19s just look so good as it fills in the arches a little better lol

 

[stevbd]

Im torn between 18's or 19's. the 18s have more tire selection and less rotating mass but the 19s just look so good as it fills in the arches a little better lol

Pick the tires you want to run first and then decide on rims from there. Assuming you want 305-ish width (you do), 19's have more 100 and 200tw options while 18's are better for Hoosiers and race tires.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

To be fair the 19 inch tire is getting more options, but especially in the wider sizes 18s still offer more choices. Less cost there also and wheels will be a lower cost item too. You can't go wrong either way, but I would look at wider wheel choices and Apex and Forgeline are solid options. No offense to Steve but I would get your wheels first and decide on the tire next, since this is your dynamic and often picking a tire can end in disaster if it is suddenly discontinued ( either size or brand model ). I bring this up as it has been a concern for many of us over the years. It is no fun having a set of tires but no longer able to get a replacement if needed due to a flat or cording.

 

[stevbd]

@Bill Pemberton Absolutely no offense taken and I almost always follow your excellent advice on here. But the numbers I see suggest the opposite. If you go on tirerack and search in the extreme performance summer, max performance summer, and streetable track and competition categories (what a lot of people might consider the typical HPDE categories), you will find that in a 305/30/19, there are 24 tire options ranging from $265-557. In a 315/30/18, there are 8 choices in those categories (unfortunately zero choices in streetable track and competition and only 1 choice in max performance summer), ranging from $365-510. When you say the 19" is gradually getting more options, it looks to me like it's the other way around.

I totally agree that if you are going with Hoosiers or race tires, 18x11 is absolutely the way to go. Not talking about those.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Fair enough the reason we likely come out differently is there are quite a few tires I don't consider that strong for autocrossing, racing, and even for HPDEs. Taking the fast rubber from 285-315s there are still more I would recommend in 18s over the same fast rubber in 19s. As you noted after doing extensive research on TireRack there appear to be more 305/315s, so good data. My preference is to discuss the faster rubber because even those who are getting started often end up buying better tires once they realize that is the secret weapon for the really fast guys.

Recommend for autocrossing --- Bridgestone RE71RSs, Yokohama A052s, Nankang CR-S ( Version2 ), Falken RT660
Endurance and HPDEs --- for wear and decent times I would suggest Conti Extreme Force, Hankook RS-4, Goodyear F1 Supercar 3, and some like the Falken RT615 ( last choice )
Time Trials -- depending on how serious you are and what group you are running with, figure on most of the top autocross tires , plus if eligible Hoosier A7s and R7s

There are even a few Manufacturers working to get in to run various Series autocrosses, Time Trials, and races that may not be eligible but are showing promise.

Part of my personal bias is guys will spend loads on shocks, springs, brakes , headers, etc. and skimp on tires and they are the single most important factor in going fast. So I will constantly suggest new drivers get as good of tires that they can afford, ask plenty of questions , especially towards those who have run for a long time, because it will likely save them money and teach them skills with decent rubber instead of a set of ice skates.

 

[stevbd]

Yup, I think we mostly agree. My only point is, a lot of those tires on your list you can only get in a 305/30/19 and not in a 315 or 305/18 - the RE71RS, Hankook RS4, GY SC3, GY 3R, plus others such as Cup2, Kumho V730.... Some great tires on your list but you can't use 'em if you have 18" rims. The 3R is an amazing tire and a smoking deal if you are USAA member but only available in 19. A lot of the others tires you list are available in both 19 and 18 for similar pricing, so in that sense the 19x11 rims open up more options for no downside. But you are right, too, other options are 18 only plus the performance advantages can't be ignored. This is why I was saying pick the tire first but maybe you said it a little better - pick the type of driving you expect to be doing.