S197 Building A Track Capable 3v Mustang Build Thread Profile - S197 Mustangs

[SMGDHG]

You were moving! Must have been the italian touch I put in your car lol

The speed italia sticker surely added +20hp!!!

Thanks all for the kind words

 

[dave2278]

I love everything about this thread!

 

[flyhalf]

The speed italia sticker surely added +20hp!!!

Thanks all for the kind words

 

[SMGDHG]

View attachment 95945

That's the one!! If you see a mustang with one of those stickers on it, watch out!

Ans pay no attention to the faded bumper w/scars from when a truck backed into me. Or the 1,000 dead bugs. I can't believe I used to street park this car. Fun times!

 

[flyhalf]

That's the one!! If you see a mustang with one of those stickers on it, watch out!

Ans pay no attention to the faded bumper w/scars from when a truck backed into me. Or the 1,000 dead bugs. I can't believe I used to street park this car. Fun times!

You have been marked
And blessed with italian speed!
Amen.

 

[Apexpny]

Had a wonderful time competing in NASA TT at Sonoma raceway last weekend with @flyhalf . No changes to the car other than softening up the rear sway bar. Car handled great, and resulted in a PB of 1.05s after I got my head in the game. So, we're sitting at a 1:46.80 (transponder verified) at Sonoma raceway which was good for 2nd place in class, and from what I can find is the fastest lap time EVER recorded for a 3v mustang at Sonoma raceway on 200tw tires. Dare I say, we're in uncharted waters! Maybe that's because no one has been dumb enough to take a 3v this far. But, I digress.

The fastest car in my class ran low 1:43's.....It's a pro car ran by a pro team w/pro drivers.....With Hoosier A7's, some more goodies for the car and more seat time, I think I can get the gap real close. If not, I'll have to open the engine up to add power. I can add about 30whp and still remain in my class. How much do you think an extra 30whp would lower my lap time? I am mainly interested in the better torque curve from aftermarket cams. The stock 3v cams are truck cams, and tq falls off a cliff starting at 5000rpm. Not good for road racing!

Changes for the future include; adding more camber both front and rear. Despite -3.4° up front, I'm still getting all my tire wear on the outside edge. This car grips like crazy now! Has way more grip than engine, it's basically a big miata at this point





View attachment 95923

Dude, that was an impressive lap time! If your at Sonoma in July we'll have to chat it up. I'll be out there in the TTU class.

 

[Fabman]

Dude, that was an impressive lap time! If your at Sonoma in July we'll have to chat it up. I'll be out there in the TTU class.

I’ll be there supporting my sons ‘05.

 

[Apexpny]

I’ll be there supporting my sons ‘05.

View attachment 96437

Your son has great taste! Can't wait to get a closer look!

 

[Fabman]

Your son has great taste! Can't wait to get a closer look!

Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

 

[Mad Hatter]

I toss them at 4 heat cycles, but at $2100/set I might try to get a little more out of them this year.
I just threw out about 15 sets with great thread depth, it was starting to look like a tire shop around here.
Too bad hardly anyone uses my size I could feed them a lot of good rubber cheap!

Holy Sheet..... 4 cycles!!...I run my R7's for 8 cycles before I switch sides on the rims then run them for another 8 or more.... Tossing is an option after at least 20 cycles unless I busted them... sometimes as much as 30 runs! These are shorter 15 to 20min sprints though.

 

[Fabman]

Holy Sheet..... 4 cycles!!...I run my R7's for 8 cycles before I switch sides on the rims then run them for another 8 or more.... Tossing is an option after at least 20 cycles unless I busted them... sometimes as much as 30 runs! These are shorter 15 to 20min sprints though.

The R’s definitely last a lot longer.
I used to qualify on A’s and race on R’s but towards the end of the season I just ran A’s for everything.

 

[SMGDHG]

Holy Sheet..... 4 cycles!!...I run my R7's for 8 cycles before I switch sides on the rims then run them for another 8 or more.... Tossing is an option after at least 20 cycles unless I busted them... sometimes as much as 30 runs! These are shorter 15 to 20min sprints though.

The R’s definitely last a lot longer.
I used to qualify on A’s and race on R’s but towards the end of the season I just ran A’s for everything.

@Mad Hatter and @Fabman , how much slower do the A's and R's get as they heat cycle for you?

I have new suspension parts coming for my car, but I'm worried about testing and tuning the car on a Hoosier (A or an R) because of the "inconsistent" nature of the tire; ie get substantially slower after "x" number of heat cycles...

I don't want tire degradation to make me think the suspension changes I make aren't effective or are making me slower.

 

[Fabman]

@Mad Hatter and @Fabman , how much slower do the A's and R's get as they heat cycle for you?

I have new suspension parts coming for my car, but I'm worried about testing and tuning the car on a Hoosier (A or an R) because of the "inconsistent" nature of the tire; ie get substantially slower after "x" number of heat cycles...

I don't want tire degradation to make me think the suspension changes I make aren't effective or are making me slower.

Welcome to the party....the answer is to have fresh rubber every time you hit the track....which most of us mere mortals can't afford....
I do 2 qualies and 2 races on a set then they are practice tires. Its pricey but it keeps everything relatively close performance wise and chassis changes are more meaningful.
Either tire is best right off the bat and then slows down after the first heat cycle. The R's stay pretty consistent after that and degrade slowly.
The A's are best right off the bat and degrade rather quickly. You can heat cycle them (a whole separate subject there) and they will be way more consistent and last longer but will never be as fast as that first heat cycle.
A lot depends on how the car is setup. Heavier, stiffer cars are harder on tires. Also driver dependent. A smooth driver will get way more from his tires than a cowboy. (ever see Day's of thunder?) So you gotta kinna figure where you are and what your style is and pick a path that works for you. I used to overheat the A's and they would get greasy pretty quickly, but after I refined my setup and well as my driving I was able to get away with the softer tires full time.

 

[SMGDHG]

Welcome to the party....the answer is to have fresh rubber every time you hit the track....which most of us mere mortals can't afford....
I do 2 qualies and 2 races on a set then they are practice tires. Its pricey but it keeps everything relatively close performance wise and chassis changes are more meaningful.
Either tire is best right off the bat and then slows down after the first heat cycle. The R's stay pretty consistent after that and degrade slowly.
The A's are best right off the bat and degrade rather quickly. You can heat cycle them (a whole separate subject there) and they will be way more consistent and last longer but will never be as fast as that first heat cycle.
A lot depends on how the car is setup. Heavier, stiffer cars are harder on tires. Also driver dependent. A smooth driver will get way more from his tires than a cowboy. (ever see Day's of thunder?) So you gotta kinna figure where you are and what your style is and pick a path that works for you. I used to overheat the A's and they would get greasy pretty quickly, but after I refined my setup and well as my driving I was able to get away with the softer tires full time.

That'll definitely be an adjustment for me. As-is I can overheat even a 200tw tire so I'm sure I'll be a mess on the A's. Driver adjustments are in my future!

Has it been worth it to heat cycle A's / R's for longevity?

I am almost considering getting a set of R's or 200TW tires so I can get the car dialed in with the new rear end, and then switch to A's when I know the setup is perfect. Doing this would also mean that I can do the proper heat cycle per Hoosier (one session w/last lap at 10/10ths pace, and then let the tire sit for a week) for my A's.

Or I buy another set of A7's (I currently have a brand new set), and that way I can properly heat cycle one set, and then just run the other set until I get the new suspension dialed in.

Ugh.

 

[Fabman]

That'll definitely be an adjustment for me. As-is I can overheat even a 200tw tire so I'm sure I'll be a mess on the A's. Driver adjustments are in my future!

Has it been worth it to heat cycle A's / R's for longevity?

I am almost considering getting a set of R's or 200TW tires so I can get the car dialed in with the new rear end, and then switch to A's when I know the setup is perfect. Doing this would also mean that I can do the proper heat cycle per Hoosier (one session w/last lap at 10/10ths pace, and then let the tire sit for a week) for my A's.

Or I buy another set of A7's (I currently have a brand new set), and that way I can properly heat cycle one set, and then just run the other set until I get the new suspension dialed in.

Ugh.

I would set it up on R's. Run the pressure 3 or 4 psi high and make an easy few laps to scuff them in.
You won't get a useful heat cycle out of them unless you let them sit for more than 24 hrs. so forget about that. Just don't get them too hot right off the batt.
Bleed the pressures down to hot target when you get back to your pit.
Then second set, run them like you normally would and again bleed pressures down to hot target. Repeat until the pressures stabilize.
When its all over and the tires are completely cooled off, look at the cold pressures and log that info for next time....these will be your starting cold pressures.
You probably already know all of this but for the benefit of those who may be reading an need the info, this is how I do it.

 

[Mad Hatter]

I would just add that with careful tire management you can make the R last a long time... I only brought down some A's for a friend and they lasted less then half the time. so thats to much $$ for me. We are the reps for Hoosier here in Chile but they are still expensive!!

What do I mean by tire management? keep a record of the cycles, Check the tires temp and pressure after every race (after a few years you stop doing this... lazy). If one tire is wearing more then swap it to were it will work less and that depends on the track etc, and its the fronts that go first for me... So I might swap them during the event so they wear evenly. Oddly enough, some times I have had a PB on a tire thats got 20 cycles or more! But then the car is always evolving and it might have been something you changed in your driving or setup that made the difference.

Beware of starting temps in very variable weather, it has a big effect. Some of our winter track days start with 5 degrees C and end up at 25 C after mid day. I use a 8 PSI delta for regular cold to hot pressures, as a general guide and adjust according to actual day temps.

For me, budget dictates a dead hoosier is a corded hoosier!! Even tuck them in at night..

 

[Fabman]

I would just add that with careful tire management you can make the R last a long time... I only brought down some A's for a friend and they lasted less then half the time. so thats to much $$ for me. We are the reps for Hoosier here in Chile but they are still expensive!!

What do I mean by tire management? keep a record of the cycles, Check the tires temp and pressure after every race (after a few years you stop doing this... lazy). If one tire is wearing more then swap it to were it will work less and that depends on the track etc, and its the fronts that go first for me... So I might swap them during the event so they wear evenly. Oddly enough, some times I have had a PB on a tire thats got 20 cycles or more! But then the car is always evolving and it might have been something you changed in your driving or setup that made the difference.

Beware of starting temps in very variable weather, it has a big effect. Some of our winter track days start with 5 degrees C and end up at 25 C after mid day. I use a 8 PSI delta for regular cold to hot pressures, as a general guide and adjust according to actual day temps.

For me, budget dictates a dead hoosier is a corded hoosier!! Even tuck them in at night..

I cross the tires after every session…..RF to LR etc.
I also use hash marks with tire crayon to track the heat cycles.

 

[Fabman]

The reason I suggest setting up on the R’s is that they will be more consistent throughout your practice day (longer/more sessions) and also be closer to the 200 tw tires that you are used to.
After that the A’7s will be your go to for TT.

 

[stevbd]

Relevant to this discussion, for those who have used both how would you compare the speed of a new Goodyear 3R and a used racing tire from a place like www.usedracingtires.com, on a 2-minute lap?