GTD Mustang

[mavisky]

I'm still under media embargo until the official reveal tonight (8/17), but it's funny to read to speculation and the comments.

FYI : GT3 is considered front-mid engined because the engine sits fully behind the front axle, which was made possible thanks to the rules allowing us to extend the wheelbase by 60mm. Something we obviously can't really do on a production vehicle due to manufacturing costs and having to re-crashtest the platform.
And yes, GT3 is S650 based as it was legally homologated with the FIA from the S650 Mustang DarkHorse (all this info is in the press release, but people don't read, they speculate and share opinions...)

I'll come back tonight to discuss

It does feel like that area between the wheel well and the front door is longer on the GT3/GTD.




I still think this is just a Ford/Multimatic S650 Dark Horse GT3 track day variant the way the 599 FXX was for Ferrari. Not road legal (especially as the extended wheel base would potential require re-crash testing it, and with the Dark Horse GT3 engine running without the FIA required restrictors

 

[67GTA]

And yes, GT3 is S650 based as it was legally homologated with the FIA from the S650 Mustang DarkHorse (all this info is in the press release, but people don't read, they speculate and share opinions...)

I read (and just re-read) the press release and don’t see any reference to the S650, Darkhorse, or the FIA homologation. Regardless, my comment above is more from my grassroots perspective - the GT3 car can’t be replicated from a Darkhorse production model by the average Joe. While it may meet the technical guidelines for homologation, it may as well be a different platform from an enthusiast’s standpoint. My apologies for being overly speculative and opinionated

https://media.ford.com/content/ford...28/ford-performance-mustang-gt3-race-car.html

 

[mavisky]

I read (and just re-read) the press release and don’t see any reference to the S650, Darkhorse, or the FIA homologation. Regardless, my comment above is more from my grassroots perspective - the GT3 car can’t be replicated from a Darkhorse production model by the average Joe. While it may meet the technical guidelines for homologation, it may as well be a different platform from an enthusiast’s standpoint. My apologies for being overly speculative and opinionated

https://media.ford.com/content/ford...28/ford-performance-mustang-gt3-race-car.html

That was the press release from before the car debuted. This is their actual site for the GT3

https://www.ford.com/performance/mustang-gt3/

Mustang® racing has always been associated with legendary on-track performances from Daytona to Bathurst, Indianapolis, Pomona and Le Mans. Now, after five years, the Blue Oval returns to the Circuit de la Sarthe. It’s officially entering the global FIA GT3 category and racing in 2024 — with the Mustang GT3 race car — based on the brand-new 2024 Mustang Dark Horse™ model.

 

[Ewheels]

I don't think the GTD will be an uber expensive, track-only special edition like the Ferrari above or the GT MKII. Those cars are very clearly race cars (slicks, tow hooks, etc) while this GTD looks like a street car (no tow hooks, has side markers, appears to be lacking a roll cage, appears to have Cup 2 R street tires, etc).

Well the uber expensive part might still be true but I think we're looking at a street car here.
Plus if the GT3 has a 5.5L engine and is homologated, that engine has to be in a street car at some point.

 

[mavisky]

I don't think the GTD will be an uber expensive, track-only special edition like the Ferrari above or the GT MKII. Those cars are very clearly race cars (slicks, tow hooks, etc) while this GTD looks like a street car (no tow hooks, has side markers, appears to be lacking a roll cage, appears to have Cup 2 R street tires, etc).

Well the uber expensive part might still be true but I think we're looking at a street car here.
Plus if the GT3 has a 5.5L engine and is homologated, that engine has to be in a street car at some point.

FIA Rules are always messy.

The engine must be derived from a series production Engine produced at more than 300 units and fitted to a series vehicle from the same manufacturer. If a mean of propulsion different than an internal combustion engine is considered, it needs to be used directly from the original car without any modification. In this case, FIA/ACO reserve the right to use any means they would deem appropriate to balance the performance of such a car.

This could reference a Coyote engine as that's what the racing engine is derived from. For balance of power it looks like they do have to send them additional information though.

Manufacturer must supply a complete datasheet to FIA/ACO prior to the start of the Balance of Performance process.
This datasheet will be recorded in a private homologation form attached to the car. FIA/ACO will also record the data logged during the BoP process.
These data must match those of the datasheet.
Data recorded by the FIA/ACO data acquisition system must, at any time, match those of the datasheet. λ must be constant and ≥ 0.88.
The conditions of the engine dyno test for the datasheet must be as close as possible to 1010 mbar / 20°C / 50% hygrometry.
For turbocharged engines, Tint (Temperature downstream intercooler) must be identical to what it will be in the car when running in the atmospheric conditions for engine dyno test (which are ideally 1010 mbar and 20°C).
For all engines, Twater must be as close as possible to what it will be in the car when running in the atmospheric conditions for engine dyno test (which are ideally 1010 mbar and 20°C).
The engine dyno test must be carried out with the race fuel.
The datasheet must include engine speed data higher than the maximum engine speed declared.

Looks to me like it's fine to bore it out so long as it's based on a homologated block which could be the 5.0 Coyote.

The cylinder block casting must come from the series production engine.
The cylinder block may be modified :
- By machining :
 for the modification of the bore or for sleeving if the original block is not fitted with sleeves.
 below the horizontal plane passing through the centreline of the crankshaft bearings, for the mounting of the dry sump.
 the cylinder head gasket plane providing that the deck height (distance between cylinder head plane and crankshaft centreline) stays within 1 mm of the original engine dimension.
 for the sole purposes of reinforcement and reliability, the raw casting may be machined differently to increase cross sections or leave more material in specific areas, provided that the original part remains identifiable.
- By addition of material :
 addition of material for local reinforcement may be done by weld or glued patches. Reinforcements cannot be done on an area of the part where material has been removed from the series production engine part by more than a 1 mm thick layer.
 lubrication holes, lubrication injector holes may be modified or closed

It just has to be under 5500 cubic cm

Normally aspirated engine : < 5500 cm3
Supercharged engine : < 4000 cm3

 

[Mike_FL]

Sounds like a Mustang GT3 road car??

 

[Mike_FL]

 

[biggsy]

https://performance.ford.com/enthusiasts/media-room/2023/8/2025-ford-mustang-gtd.html

So now what do you guys think?
starts at $300k…

 

[kiro]

The estimated starting MSRP places it out of reach for me, but it's still a pretty cool car considering what it represents.

https://www.ford.com/performance/mustang-gtd/

The First-Ever Ford Mustang GTD

Meet the Ford Mustang® GTD: the most audacious and advanced Mustang ever. It's a limited-edition, street legal performance car designed in parallel with Mustang GT3 race car and ready to take on the world’s best performance cars.

ford.shorthandstories.com

 

[yotah1]

For anybody looking for more info, Ford has launched a section of its official website dedicated to the Mustang GTD (which Kiro posted a link to right above). It actually gives away quite a lot of info on the car's design en engineering.

MotorTrend.com has also posted an article with every single one of the press images that we released (including the design sketches from my team and myself).

And you can see my stupid face in the Making Mustang History video posted just above (look for the GT350 Track Attack shirt on the only guy who's under 40 .

So now, fire away the questions if you want .

By the way, i saw some discussion on it above, the GT3 has a Coyote based engine built by M-Sport and designed by our powertrain engineers at Ford Performance, and it's 5.4liters.

 

[mavisky]

Seriously impressive. A little sad it's just getting the predator engine, but makes sense with it being a road car.

With this being a transaxle car is this a derivative of the Tremec DCT in a new case or something new? In Shmee's video he makes a quick mention of an 8 speed dual clutch transaxle vs the Tremec 9070 in the current GT500/C8 being only a 7 speed.

 

[Champale]

For anybody looking for more info, Ford has launched a section of its official website dedicated to the Mustang GTD (which Kiro posted a link to right above). It actually gives away quite a lot of info on the car's design en engineering.

MotorTrend.com has also posted an article with every single one of the press images that we released (including the design sketches from my team and myself).

And you can see my stupid face in the Making Mustang History video posted just above (look for the GT350 Track Attack shirt on the only guy who's under 40 .

So now, fire away the questions if you want .

By the way, i saw some discussion on it above, the GT3 has a Coyote based engine built by M-Sport and designed by our powertrain engineers at Ford Performance, and it's 5.4liters.

yotah1 - what an amazing experience this must be for all of you guys who have worked on this car! What an incredible development of the Mustang platform. It's hard to believe that Ford had the guts to do something so radical to take on the European brands but I think it's one of the coolest cars imaginable, especially during this phase where performance cars are dying off in favor of yet more boring EVs. Keep up the good work!

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Can't talk now, I have to go down to the store and buy $1000 worth of Lottery tickets. Farley and team are insane, and it reminds me of the secretive little Team at Dodge so many years ago who dropped the Viper on a surprised public. This will have immense impact on all of Ford's products and Gearheads the World over will give the Blue Oval a standing Ovation!!

Wow, wow , wow, wow..............

 

[jchady]

yotah1 - Why was the decision made to not run a hybrid? Even a hybrid V8?

 

[Mike_FL]

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Dang, the loading looks a little close on the passenger side! Love Reliable Carriers , they brought me and the Dealership a ton of cars over the years, and helped deliver some , super quality company with Distribution Centers all over the US!

 

[Ewheels]

I forgot his TMO username but anyone know if Ben Sloss is buying one?

 

[Bill Pemberton]

I would bet on it, I have known Ben for 23 years, helped him secure some fun beasts when I was selling, and we all know he does like Blue Oval machines!!

 

[Ewheels]

I've seen a lot of Chris Harris reviews where he takes the best of the best street cars and claims they still feel soft compared to true race cars. I wonder if this will be the first true "race car for the road." Also curious how much of the GT3 car they kept or if they threw a bunch of rubber in the suspension.

 

[yotah1]

Jchady, hybrid means extra weight, extra systems, extra motors... it didn't fit in the car, simple as that. And it wasn't the goal as we wanted to link as much as possible to the GT3 racecar and that car is a simple V8.

Ewheels, we tried to keep what we could from the GT3, but to be honest, we don't really share anything. Na V8 vs Supercharged V8 to start with. Also, the road car has cantilever suspension versus we were only allowed to homologate double wishbones on the racecar. The architecture though, is the same, with the transaxle on both, gearbox cooling with radiators in the trunk with air ducted from the back of the rear window. The wing design, cantilevered from the sides of the rear glass, actually came as an idea on the road car and then was applied to the racecar.
Of course, the racecar is much lower (50mm ground clearance), has a longer wheelbase, and has completely separate front and rear subframe assemblies for ease of repairs at the track.
But just like a GT3RS looks like a GT3R, although they to do not share a single component ...