My S197 Got crushed by a trio of M3's on trackday at Waterford Hills MI

[Boss4Me]

The beginners setup to going fast in an S197 Boss 302.
Swap to 18x11 wheels with 315 tires. Alternatively, 19x11 on 305 tires.
Change the rear brakes to the GT500 rotors and caliper extension bracket.
Change the rear ratio to 3.55:1. If you've got a non-Boss GT, use 3.31:1 ratio and change the differential to a T2R.
Add rear lower arm relocation brackets, and optionally, lower adjustable arms.
Add camber plates (should be done with the tires).
Add an adjustable panhard bar or Watts link (also should be done with the tires).
At a minimum use the Bilsteins and lowering springs, consider swapping the springs to 450# front with a sleeve kit and 175# rear using Vorshlag parts.
Swap to the heavier, adjustable, Whiteline sway bars, particularly in the rear.
Consider deleting the oil heater in favor of an air-to-oil oil cooler.
Add a stiffer bushing to the transmission to help with miss-shifts. Either the Whiteline bushing reinforcement or the Energy Suspension shifter bushing, or both.
Add track worthy brake pads and brake cooling.

Those changes will get you -VERY- far into the performance of the S197.

A better seat and harness to hold you in place would be my next addition. Actually you can add the harness to the stock seat, but a racing style seat works better. The harness will require a rollbar, and the best I've used is the Maximum Motorsport part.
Next I'd address the front arm bushings. The Whiteline KCA433 kit duplicates the racing arm bushings.
Beyond that, better dampers, effective aero, engine tuning and bolt-ons for power, and even bigger tires are on the list.

To the OP, take this response with a grain of salt. There are common sense (smaller bite size) steps in front of you, many of which have been suggested by fellow TMO’ers. Smallblock’s build thread is a great reference. As a WHRR enthusiast, brakes (Ford/Brembo) wheels/tires (there is a lot to consider with width, diameter and TW), springs/dampers (this is where a system source is key), should be your focus. Choose a suspension system and stick with it, FP as BS1 would suggest or another. You cannot out-develop what others have developed.

 

[Reloader]

With that list, no e92 M3 will be able to keep up unless the owner spends some serious $$$$$. Do you really think that the gt500 discs in the rear will help that much?? I have been sitting on the fence on that upgrade for a while as its adding weight etc.

I believe that the issue has to do with swept area of the disc and therefore less heat transfer to the brake fluid. As you know the pads are the same so braking power is the same.

Just my 2¢.

 

[EF1]

This is a big deal as of course my tires sucked but only maybe 2 or 3 times did i actually brake at the number 3 marker and it always stopped just fine.. its just the freaking noise it was like a used up russian airliner stopping with totally blown landing gear. think steering wheel heavy vibrations, but it never gave up any stopping power i just got petrified. so in the future i need to use this beast up on the brakes and the straight!!!! no fear, no mercy on the brakes.

It looks like you have a 2011. The brake vibration could very well be the eps rack. The 2011 and early 2012 cars had a well documented issue with the lane drift correction coding causing shudder and brake vibration. The problem occurs when you start changing things on the car. Larger heavier brakes, wheels and tires, lowering springs, and especially stiffer front suspension bushings bring out the symptoms. I had a shudder under hard braking that was misdiagnosed for some time. Once I replaced the front hydro bushings with urethane it was difficult to keep the car in a lane on the highway. The Boss 302R steering rack was the solution for me at the time. Ford changed the programming part way through the 2012 model year, but I couldn't get a clear answer on build dates that were affected.

 

[EF1]

Just hold tight another 30 days - Girodisc will have the 2 piece rears available in the GT500 size. Don’t know what the final weight will be, but those combined with the Blowfish aluminum brackets and I’m probably at or less than the OE weight.

You must know something that the rest of us don't. I have looked for the GT500 size rear Girodisks for years and had given up. I am surprised that they are going to make them since the cars have been out of production for so long. Either way, let us know if/when they become available.

 

[EF1]

With that list, no e92 M3 will be able to keep up unless the owner spends some serious $$$$$. Do you really think that the gt500 discs in the rear will help that much?? I have been sitting on the fence on that upgrade for a while as its adding weight etc.

I put the GT500 rotors on the year back when I was still running the 4 piston Brembos. I originally did it for looks. They fill out the 19" wheels better. They did lower brake temps after 20-30 minute sessions significantly. If I remember correctly 30-40 degrees. I know it is subjective but at the time it felt like the car was more composed under hard breaking.

 

[67GTA]

You must know something that the rest of us don't. I have looked for the GT500 size rear Girodisks for years and had given up. I am surprised that they are going to make them since the cars have been out of production for so long. Either way, let us know if/when they become available.

Working with Tim @OPMustang Tim - and he confirmed they will be available soon. I always felt like a true gauge of demand would be the number of GT500 front rotors and replacement rings they’re selling, of which none are probably going on actual GT500’s. The added weight of the bigger rotor has kept a lot of people from converting to the bigger rears, but the 2 piece should drastically narrow that weight penalty with the aluminum hat.

 

[EF1]

That is good to know. I have run the larger rotors for years, but had to use one piece rotors. I always wanted the weight savings of the 2 piece GiroDisks. The two piece also seem to dissipate heat better.

 

[TeeLew]

Body roll is your friend...

View attachment 89755

If there's any question as to how much rear spring and/or bar is necessary to go fast, I think this picture pretty much answers it, Not much.

 

[Mad Hatter]

The beginners setup to going fast in an S197 Boss 302.
Swap to 18x11 wheels with 315 tires. Alternatively, 19x11 on 305 tires.
Change the rear brakes to the GT500 rotors and caliper extension bracket.
Change the rear ratio to 3.55:1. If you've got a non-Boss GT, use 3.31:1 ratio and change the differential to a T2R.
Add rear lower arm relocation brackets, and optionally, lower adjustable arms.
Add camber plates (should be done with the tires).
Add an adjustable panhard bar or Watts link (also should be done with the tires).
At a minimum use the Bilsteins and lowering springs, consider swapping the springs to 450# front with a sleeve kit and 175# rear using Vorshlag parts.
Swap to the heavier, adjustable, Whiteline sway bars, particularly in the rear.
Consider deleting the oil heater in favor of an air-to-oil oil cooler.
Add a stiffer bushing to the transmission to help with miss-shifts. Either the Whiteline bushing reinforcement or the Energy Suspension shifter bushing, or both.
Add track worthy brake pads and brake cooling.

Those changes will get you -VERY- far into the performance of the S197.

A better seat and harness to hold you in place would be my next addition. Actually you can add the harness to the stock seat, but a racing style seat works better. The harness will require a rollbar, and the best I've used is the Maximum Motorsport part.
Next I'd address the front arm bushings. The Whiteline KCA433 kit duplicates the racing arm bushings.
Beyond that, better dampers, effective aero, engine tuning and bolt-ons for power, and even bigger tires are on the list.

Put my glasses on and read the list again.... "Swap to the heavier, adjustable, Whiteline sway bars, particularly in the rear." that one was hard to get my head around. The idea is to have more traction....
If you just want to beat a M3, then put the ford racing shocks/struts kit with a small bar in the rear. Will need some decent 275/35-19 or bigger tires and your done, great handling car ready to have fun on the track.

Or then you can just go crazy a spend lots of money on something like a full cortex kit.

 

[OPMustang Tim]

You must know something that the rest of us don't. I have looked for the GT500 size rear Girodisks for years and had given up. I am surprised that they are going to make them since the cars have been out of production for so long. Either way, let us know if/when they become available.

It required Girodisc to develop a new casting for the rotor ring, they are building hats currently so they are moving forward with them.

 

[OPMustang Tim]

I believe that the issue has to do with swept area of the disc and therefore less heat transfer to the brake fluid. As you know the pads are the same so braking power is the same.

Just my 2¢.

Same braking force but more leverage. As the caliper moves out (longer lever) the same braking force has additional torque.

 

[EF1]

It required Girodisc to develop a new casting for the rotor ring, they are building hats currently so they are moving forward with them.

That is good to hear. I had given up on them making them this late in the life cycle.

 

[Vettel-ish]

Hey, who you calling funky??!!

View attachment 89751

New stickers look great! Another 5HP

 

[OPMustang Tim]

That is good to hear. I had given up on them making them this late in the life cycle.

The older the cars get they become popular again. Its our challenge with 1/2" Lug nuts. We know the market will use them..eventually, but they are a 1/30th of the 14mm volume currently.

 

[twistedneck]

View attachment 89783
I think s197’s look great with 315 tires as long as you have the right offset and ample front camber

Oh i'm going to do 315's on 11" wheels (or 11.5 in the back? full apex setup - but thats about $3000 and will have to wait till next year i just blew $8000 on it like water. lol.

 

[twistedneck]

Just hold tight another 30 days - Girodisc will have the 2 piece rears available in the GT500 size. Don’t know what the final weight will be, but those combined with the Blowfish aluminum brackets and I’m probably at or less than the OE weight.

Ok i'll hold off on the rears but i thought we only needed the small 11" rotors in the back to keep things balanced? didn't capaldi say that? i mean.. the big boys look a lot better thats for sure but Blowfish is out of the game too right? hmmm..

 

[twistedneck]

Same braking force but more leverage. As the caliper moves out (longer lever) the same braking force has additional torque.

Would this mean we need to add some anti dive to the car to keep more weight rearward? or possibly some less bite pads?

 

[EF1]

Ok i'll hold off on the rears but i thought we only needed the small 11" rotors in the back to keep things balanced? didn't capaldi say that? i mean.. the big boys look a lot better thats for sure but Blowfish is out of the game too right? hmmm..

Capaldi may be Class constrained Even Ford put the bigger rears on when they went to 15” fronts. You don’t need Blowfish just dig into Ford’s 2014 Gt500 parts bin for the caliper brackets.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Oh i'm going to do 315's on 11" wheels (or 11.5 in the back? full apex setup - but thats about $3000 and will have to wait till next year i just blew $8000 on it like water. lol.

Your strut tower jigs are on their way, I PM'd you the tracking number. Please turn them around in 2 weeks in case another person needs them. thanks in advance.

 

[twistedneck]

Hey, who you calling funky??!!

View attachment 89751

67GTA is this the apex 11" wheel setup with the spacers they recommend i think like 100mm front and 40mm rear? it looks perfect that's the most tasteful set of 315/30/18's i've seen.

Edit: who makes that front spoiler its special too.. although based on what Hartman said i would put some ugly side plates on too.