P030X Random Misfire & Limp Mode Questionaire and Discussion Thread

[CarGuyDanL]

Re: CEL - "random misfire" (recurring)

I just wanted to add to this thread. On 10-11-12 I bought a 13 Boss # 1491 GTHIG! (I traded in my 2012 Lava Red GT 5.0 w/ Brebmo PKG for it as I wanted a bad ass daily driver). I Missed my 2003 Cobra Convertible and thought this was the Best Option going for the money as a GT500 is a bit more than I need… Want... Well that's a different story. Also I would like to add I not only have a good relationship with my dealer, I have worked in Ford Sales here since 1996. With that said I take extra good care of my daily drivers.
I did the low RPM break in for 1200 miles on the Boss for my daily drive 15 miles to work and home. Read as much as I could find on what you all were doing to your Boss Mustangs. I bought the track Key, removed the resistor plates (sounds like a Boss Should) and had the Red key Ford Racing program installed Nov 30th. Yes it’s cold here in Seattle but what the heck I drove it home and back to work the next day with the Red Key. After a week I noticed it sputtered, went into Limp mode I coasted for a 100 feet and back came the throttle and off to work I went. This happened 2 days in a row and the CEL stayed on solid so I told this to my Service Guy. For the Record I work in Ford Sales and have been at the dealership since 96 and so has my service writer. He had his best Tec call Ford Racing told not to do the reset. I then was told to use Chevron Fuel and drive it harder for a couple days to see what it would do. With 1/2 a mile away from the shop it did it again. They cleared it and said they would get back to me. This was before X-mass. The TSB mentioned in this thread was out 12-12-12. After a week the light went out so I used the Red Key again. The CEL light came on Limp mode... coast then light went off. The CEL is on Solid again. Today I asked about this again and they said most cars affected after doing this TSB are having reoccurring issues. Once I get mine fixed, I will let you all know what the NEW Idea is to fixing the Limp Mode roll and CEL issues.

 

[KBBOSS1086]

Re: CEL - "random misfire" (recurring)

Thanks for commenting on your expereince, CarGuyDanL. Many of us have been dealing with similar CEL / Limp Mode issues for up to 2 years now, with most of us getting less than exceptoinal help from our dealers dealers or answers from Ford. I am interested to hear what you find out and whether or not you (a Ford Dealer employee) will get the same type of runaround many of us here on BMO have received.

Limp mode happens to many of us along with the CEL codes but unless I missed something, this is the first time I've heard of stalling and coasting. Good luck with car and with getting this figured out...when they're running right there is nothing better.

 

[PeteInCT]

Re: CEL - "random misfire" (recurring)

+1 on that last post. IMO, there's more issues lurking there than just a TK tune glitch. I'd be suspect of the wiring harness, camshaft positions sensors, crankshaft position sensor as well as the oil valve solenoid. To my knowledge all of those parts have the ability to force P0300/P0308 codes and limp mode....

 

[CarGuyDanL]

Re: CEL - "random misfire" (recurring)

I guess I should have described the Stall…Coast. When I leave my home or work I have a hill to go up, as I go from 3rd to 4th at about 40MPH is when it starts to go into limp mode, and If I push the peddle, no power so I need to coast till it regains its power and then off I go.

I was told today by my service guy; “Try to hold the shift’s longer and it might not happen. Have fun till we figure it out“.

Sorry to hear it’s been a long road for some of you. I have sold a couple Boss Mustangs and Several Cobras and GT 500 and no complaints here. Other than a guy I sold a 12 GT 500 after he had it Super Snaked for $35k it would go into limp mode. He said if he turned it off and back on it was fine. But he did not like that. His fix was sent it to Shelby and now it’s the 950 HP “Wicket Fast” Bad ass daily driver that he can also track.
Based on everything I have been told and read, this Boss problem may not hurt anything, just a fuel waster while it miss-fire the fuel in the cylinders. But then we didn’t buy these for the MPG's right!

 

[KBBOSS1086]

Re: CEL - "random misfire" (recurring)

I can't comment on the loss of power related to your CEL's - mine goes into limp mode about alf the time I have a misfire, and I've had a lot of them. It doesn't surprise me that it is happening to you when you shift from 3rd to 4th. This seems to be when it happens to many of us too.

I agree with Pete 100% - it is likely the wiring harness and/or one of the sensors he mentioned. Unfortunately, these fixes would cost Ford a lot of $$$ to do. I'm convined they know what the problem is but won't admit it...better to try to mask a problem with re-programs than bite the bullet and fix the problem. I agree that there is likely no damage occurring to motor but we did not pay more than $45k for vehicles that throw codes and go into limp mode.

 

[PeteInCT]

Re: CEL - "random misfire" (recurring)

To add to this my dealer really placed my wiring harness as directed by FRPP and replaced my crank sensor at my request. I don't think they are averse to replacing parts, they just have to have a logical reason to do so.

 

[CarGuyDanL]

Re: CEL - "random misfire" (recurring)

After joining this forum and learning a few out there having the same problem I also joined allfordmustang forum where I PM'd a Ford Customer service Rep named Deysha, she had a Customer Care Specialist call me today with a claim # and a commitment that they will work to resolve this. Thanks for all your guidance here! I will pass on to my dealer some of you had wiring issues and crankshaft position sensor. I will let you know what is done over the next few days.

In the mean time I look forward to reading the other cool things you have done with your cars to make them FUN to drive both on the road and track.

 

[LS Boss]

Re: CEL - "random misfire" (recurring)

010, PI have been back to the dealer two times now on P020 codes (cam position timing bank 1)...The first time at the track, the engine actually pulled back on power and I chose not to run any long that weekend. the dealer said it was a sensor and a wiring problem...as reported in a previous thread...supposedly fixed it...then next track day, got the P020 code again...they couyld figure this one out or "replicate" it...so they resolved that they forgot to clear the cods...when they said they had on the RO. Update to now...just finished 2 track day stint...yup got P020, P010 (cam timing issues) and the random misfire code....I cleared them at the track and continued to run...no noticed ill impact. I thought the misfire might be from hitting the limiter a few times...I have heard that can throw codes on some cars...not sure if the Boss is one of them.

Anyway, has anyone else had this repeated problem with P010 & P020 codes and reall found the resolution? Thought I might call Ford racing, they seem to be pretty good back there.

 

[PeteInCT]

Re: CEL - "random misfire" (recurring)

Yes. As stated before those codes can come from a multitude of sources, including the wiring harness, cam sensors, crank sensor, etc. I think the only real 'fix' will be when they come out with a TSB for a new program for the PCM on the 2012 models. The 2013 has it but for some reason not the 2012's.

 

[shoveldoc]

Re: CEL - "random misfire" (recurring)

I have had the misfire/cel/limpmode issues for quite a while. i have held off posting because much of it was already covered and i wanted to wait until i had any sort of information to add. I have a great relation with my dealer and have taken it in numerous times for the issue. They have worked hard on trying to solve the problem including re installing the track key tune, reflashing the entire ecm, replacing coil packs, and the crank position relearn. all these would help for a while, but never fixed the problem as it continually recurred. The last time i took it in in Oct. the dealer basically told me there was nothing else they could do and would have to wait on Ford. At this time, i sent a certified letter to Ford detailing the issue along with specifics and asked for a solution per their warranty. It is amazing the attention you get when you send an official letter. Ford promptly contacted me which was cool, but told me that they had no solution at the time and were working on the issue. They said i would be notified when a new TSB was issued that addressed the problem. I got a call from the dealer last week that there was a new TSB and to bring my car in. After taking my car in, the dealer called me and informed me that Ford had told them to wait on working on the car and that they were going to send an engineer out to work with the mechanic on the car. Just got the call, the Ford engineer will be here tomorrow so i will be taking the car back in. Hopefully they can find a solution. i will post an update and any information I am able to learn.

 

[VoodooBoss]

Re: CEL - "random misfire" (recurring)

Doc do you have a 12 or13? The TSB for the 13 was released last Dec and I have not heard about a TSB for the 12.

 

[shoveldoc]

Re: CEL - "random misfire" (recurring)

i have a 2013 LS

 

[LS Boss]

Re: CEL - "random misfire" (recurring)

shucks....was hopin for a 2012 fix...mine back at dealer (different one, gave up on the one I have been using) again...repeats on p010, p020

 

[cloud9]

Re: CEL - "random misfire" (recurring)

Looks like the 2013 fix isn't working....at least on the GT engines. I didn't realize they were having more of an issue even than we are with the Boss engines. Theirs are occurring primarily on the street let alone the track. I really wish we could get this resolved.

http://forums.themustangsource.com/f804/misfire-515375/index3/#post6581377

 

[LS Boss]

Re: CEL - "random misfire" (recurring)

The code throwing saga continues; last track day again coming up with P010 and P012 code repeatedly. Ahhh but this time a new quirk, for no particular reason the car while under acceleration and climbing a hill at Thunderhill turn 9, just quit...one time at around 105-110 mph climbing and another at about 75 mph going over the top, no limiter no excessive rpms, no temperature, plenty of gas ...and no warning...checked and no code whatsover showed up and was able to re-engage engine in a few seconds and performance back and acceleration to normal. I am guessing this might be what you are calling limp mode here, however I have experienced it (limp mode) on BMW and it is entirely different...it just throttle limits to about 1500 rpm...this Ford gave absolutely nothing for a few seconds then back on with full power response. The reason I mention the hill is maybe it is a gas issue while the fuel is pushed to the back of the tank, anyone know where to fuel line is on these cars? Anyone else experience this type of hiccup? Both times there was between 1/4+ or about 1/2 tank of fuel.

Today, I filed a "concern" case with Ford and they have assigned a regional director to look into this repetitve condition. Hopefully I will quit making trips to the greatest "Ford racing tech dealers" and get some absolution. I am close with the new Pope...so I can use that term freely.

I will keep you posted on Ford's response on the code business.

 

[cloud9]

Re: CEL - "random misfire" (recurring)

The code throwing saga continues; last track day again coming up with P010 and P012 code repeatedly. Ahhh but this time a new quirk, for no particular reason the car while under acceleration and climbing a hill at Thunderhill turn 9, just quit...one time at around 105-110 mph climbing and another at about 75 mph going over the top, no limiter no excessive rpms, no temperature, plenty of gas ...and no warning...checked and no code whatsover showed up and was able to re-engage engine in a few seconds and performance back and acceleration to normal. I am guessing this might be what you are calling limp mode here, however I have experienced it (limp mode) on BMW and it is entirely different...it just throttle limits to about 1500 rpm...this Ford gave absolutely nothing for a few seconds then back on with full power response. The reason I mention the hill is maybe it is a gas issue while the fuel is pushed to the back of the tank, anyone know where to fuel line is on these cars? Anyone else experience this type of hiccup? Both times there was between 1/4+ or about 1/2 tank of fuel.

Today, I filed a "concern" case with Ford and they have assigned a regional director to look into this repetitve condition. Hopefully I will quit making trips to the greatest "Ford racing tech dealers" and get some absolution. I am close with the new Pope...so I can use that term freely.

I will keep you posted on Ford's response on the code business.

Limp mode cuts you to 4 cylinders so if it was in limp mode you should have still had "some" power albeit dramatically reduced. Do you mean the engine shut off? If it's fuel, you will get the stumbling effect of the engine quitting, then when fuel returns the engine restarting. Our cars have saddle tanks so once you go below 1/2 tank you have the possibility of it cutting out due to lack of fuel in sustained high G turns. It shouldn't happen under acceleration or hard braking but more on lateral movement. It typically won't happen until you're down to around 1/4 tank as one side basically empties out. For this reason I generally start sessions at around 3/4 tank. At Road America with 25 minute sessions I'll burn about 1/2 tank of gas so that's about as far as you can go without starting to have the issue with low fuel.

 

[LS Boss]

Re: CEL - "random misfire" (recurring)

thanks for the insight on the fuel.....this was not a reducion in cylinders...with gas pedal to floor...no rpms....just coasted a second or three and bang..you have throttle again...I have a shift light that is hardwired to tach and it went out completely meaning no rpms...not really sure if the car restarted by itself (when it happened to my coach, he thought it did) or that rpm were at such a low level that not to register on the shift light indicator, more than likely that was the case. This is the only place it has ever happened, and I know I have gone with similar fuel tank conditions at Laguna Seca and the climb there is similar or more severe, never an issue.

 

[cloud9]

Re: CEL - "random misfire" (recurring)

thanks for the insight on the fuel.....this was not a reducion in cylinders...with gas pedal to floor...no rpms....just coasted a second or three and bang..you have throttle again...I have a shift light that is hardwired to tach and it went out completely meaning no rpms...not really sure if the car restarted by itself (when it happened to my coach, he thought it did) or that rpm were at such a low level that not to register on the shift light indicator, more than likely that was the case. This is the only place it has ever happened, and I know I have gone with similar fuel tank conditions at Laguna Seca and the climb there is similar or more severe, never an issue.

Very weird. Any idea how much fuel you had on board at the time? Anxious to hear if they find the cause.

Oh and if you're close with the Pope could you ask him to "lighten up Francis" ;D I've been dying to say that :

 

[LS Boss]

Re: CEL - "random misfire" (recurring)

in both cases tank was less than 1/2 full in one case may have been between 1/4 and E.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Re: CEL - "random misfire" (recurring)

in both cases tank was less than 1/2 full in one case may have been between 1/4 and E.

I have consistent fuel starvation issues if I start a session at 1/4 tank or less. I can typically run for about 10 mins before it starts to choke out in tight turns; I could see how rapid elevation changes would do similar things.

I try to always start at half tank minimum, and typically burn 1/4 tank during a session.

Limp mode will trigger a flashing engine light and it will sound like you just lost half the engine.