Rotors for HPDE track day?

[blueracer130]

Hello all, I have a 2015 Ecoboost Track Package 6 speed (forgive me all you V8-ers…more to do with budget why I have what I have). I had my first track day at Blackhawk Farms in South Beloit, IL last week. I put on fresh OEM style rotors and new Hawk HP+ pads. After the day (2 hours total track time) there are many signs of too much heat including some heat damage to the caliper (note this has same size brakes and setup to a normal GT with track pack). Also hairline cracks in the pad. Note: near factory weight of 3500 LBs as not a track only car.

My mechanic is suggesting slotted or drilled but I have heard stories of issues with those. With that said I have a fresh pair of drilled and slotted C&L rotors; has anyone heard of those? Popular on American Muscle and other stores online; but I assume used mostly for street use. Has anyone ever used this brand of rotors for racing? If not, what is recommended? Here is a link to them as of 8/24/24: https://www.americanmuscle.com/cnl-...-slotted-rotors-front-pair-417353-417354.html

Also, I am thinking HP 60 in the back and HP 70 up front. I plan to drive to and from the track but would swap just a few days ahead of time and can avoid street driving the car around except to/from track.

Open to all advice!

 

[EF1]

There is nothing wrong with stock rotors for track use. Slotted rotors are okay, but stay away from drilled. They tend to crack around the holes. Make sure you use good pads with an appropriate heat range. The HP+ is okay for limited track use by beginners, but most outgrow the compound quickly. I used them early on and didn't realize how bad they were until I tried something else.

 

[GJarrett]

I have a 2017 Ecoboost and have added parts as needed as I have continued to enjoy HPDE events. I am intermediate level now and can suggest what you will notice with your Ecoboost if you continue to participate in HPDE and grow better as a driver.

My first track day weekend I started with the obvious needs such as upgraded intercooler and brake fluid (Castrol SRF, I now run Motul 600) and added a mild FP tune. I ran stock all season tires and was hooked, had never had more fun with my clothes on, as the saying goes.

My second weekend was at Atlanta Motorsports Park, by then I had upgraded wheels and tires with Apex EC-7 18"x9" rims wearing 275/40r18 Firehawks. I started cooking my brakes by the second morning session, and brake cooling has been an ongoing project since then. Until you address that you will be struggling until you get them cooled down. Tackle that project first with an Ecoboost. Oh, and if your mechanic suggested drilled rotors for HPDE find another mechanic for your track prep. Don't use them.

I went through several ideas getting my brakes cooled down and this is what I have ended up with which has worked for me at intermediate driver HPDE level. I cut holes in my belly pan and put NACA scoops in it to feed air up to the rotors. That's kinda a redneck DIY but I suppose a PP1/Mach1 type belly pan with air channels will work too. Vorschlag air deflectors on the control arms direct the air to Steeda 2 piece rotors which run cooler. I also had the useless base Ecoboost calipers so I upgraded to GT calipers. If you already have those they will work fine for you, no need to upgrade to Brembos/etc. With this setup I ran VIR and did not cook OEM pads which is kinda amazing when you think about it. With G-Loc R8 pads I have since done VIR again, Carolina Motorsports Park, Sebring, and the FIRM with no brake fade or overheating, all with siginificantly more speed and power (NX2 turbo, custom tune, full FBO/downpipe, etc) than I had before.

I'm now significantly upgrading my suspension and moving to 200tw tires but that's another subject for more serious track time later on.

For now, don't install those drilled rotors; if you use OEM rotors make sure you don't have the old style inverted hat rotors but have the later issue new design that has cooling vanes from the inside side. Upgrade your brake fluid to something like Castrol SRF or Motul 600 / 660, and go for either Vorschlag brake cooling deflectors or those made by Philip Bamberg (GTP on the other Mustang forum) which are cheaper and better than Vorschlags. That'll be a good start.

I don't have experience with the assorted Hawk pads but as a general rule, if you take steps to cool the rotors and calipers, a novice Ecoboost can get by with slightly upgraded brake pads and not need highly aggressive race pads. I'm using G-Loc R8s and haven't felt a need to upgrade to R10/12 or higher yet. Once I go to 200tw tires that may change, but does not apply to you at this time.

 

[blueracer130]

There is nothing wrong with stock rotors for track use. Slotted rotors are okay, but stay away from drilled. They tend to crack around the holes. Make sure you use good pads with an appropriate heat range. The HP+ is okay for limited track use by beginners, but most outgrow the compound quickly. I used them early on and didn't realize how bad they were until I tried something else.

Thanks…yeah that is what I hear re drilled? Should I keep them as my next non track rotor? I suspect they should hold up for non track use and just get some better non drilled race rotors and better pads.

 

[blueracer130]

I have a 2017 Ecoboost and have added parts as needed as I have continued to enjoy HPDE events. I am intermediate level now and can suggest what you will notice with your Ecoboost if you continue to participate in HPDE and grow better as a driver.

My first track day weekend I started with the obvious needs such as upgraded intercooler and brake fluid (Castrol SRF, I now run Motul 600) and added a mild FP tune. I ran stock all season tires and was hooked, had never had more fun with my clothes on, as the saying goes.

My second weekend was at Atlanta Motorsports Park, by then I had upgraded wheels and tires with Apex EC-7 18"x9" rims wearing 275/40r18 Firehawks. I started cooking my brakes by the second morning session, and brake cooling has been an ongoing project since then. Until you address that you will be struggling until you get them cooled down. Tackle that project first with an Ecoboost. Oh, and if your mechanic suggested drilled rotors for HPDE find another mechanic for your track prep. Don't use them.

I went through several ideas getting my brakes cooled down and this is what I have ended up with which has worked for me at intermediate driver HPDE level. I cut holes in my belly pan and put NACA scoops in it to feed air up to the rotors. That's kinda a redneck DIY but I suppose a PP1/Mach1 type belly pan with air channels will work too. Vorschlag air deflectors on the control arms direct the air to Steeda 2 piece rotors which run cooler. I also had the useless base Ecoboost calipers so I upgraded to GT calipers. If you already have those they will work fine for you, no need to upgrade to Brembos/etc. With this setup I ran VIR and did not cook OEM pads which is kinda amazing when you think about it. With G-Loc R8 pads I have since done VIR again, Carolina Motorsports Park, Sebring, and the FIRM with no brake fade or overheating, all with siginificantly more speed and power (NX2 turbo, custom tune, full FBO/downpipe, etc) than I had before.

I'm now significantly upgrading my suspension and moving to 200tw tires but that's another subject for more serious track time later on.

For now, don't install those drilled rotors; if you use OEM rotors make sure you don't have the old style inverted hat rotors but have the later issue new design that has cooling vanes from the inside side. Upgrade your brake fluid to something like Castrol SRF or Motul 600 / 660, and go for either Vorschlag brake cooling deflectors or those made by Philip Bamberg (GTP on the other Mustang forum) which are cheaper and better than Vorschlags. That'll be a good start.

I don't have experience with the assorted Hawk pads but as a general rule, if you take steps to cool the rotors and calipers, a novice Ecoboost can get by with slightly upgraded brake pads and not need highly aggressive race pads. I'm using G-Loc R8s and haven't felt a need to upgrade to R10/12 or higher yet. Once I go to 200tw tires that may change, but does not apply to you at this time.

This is suuuppper helpful! Thanks. Will try most of these ideas. Thanks for confirming no drilled! Also for other brake ideas.

 

[GJarrett]

This morning I did think of something else that might clarify your rotor situation for you better; last night you had me a little confused stating you had a 2015 Ecoboost "Track Package" which does not exist. I now realize you meant Performance Pack (PP) model which does have the base GT brake calipers that I needed to upgrade to since I did not have them. HOWEVER, a 2015 Ecoboost PP would have the original "inverted hat" rotors which do not respond to cooling mods and overheat on the track easily - as you quickly learned. I will explain a little more in depth why I mentioned those rotors in my first reply to you if that helps you understand the issue better.

EF1 was correct in stating that there is nothing wrong with stock rotors for track use, and you stated that you "put on fresh OEM style rotors"... BUT, did you put on fresh new upgraded OEM style rotors or replace with the original OEM inverted hat style rotors. The new OEMs will respond to the brake cooling mods I listed, but the originals will get very little help from them and still overheat because the old inverted hat design will not distribute all that directed air out over the entire rotor. OP Mustang has a good article describing these designs that will educate you on the issue:

2015+ S550 Ford Mustang OEM Upgraded Brake Rotor for ECOBOOST and Non-BREMBO GT

We just wanted to let everyone know that Ford released a new design front brake rotor for the 2015+ S550 Mustangs that have the 4 Piston Front Caliper. This change was made a couple of...

www.opmustang.com

If your "new OEM style rotors" are the upgraded ones, you can still use those in conjunction with directing some airflow via cooling mods that you can now more easily afford since you won't be spending more money on new rotors. If you have the original style, you'll need to spend the rotor fund money and buy some other rotors, or you'll be wasting your time no matter what you try to do to cool those brakes. Hope that makes sense.

And yes, your drilled rotors will be fine for street use, they are not junk; they just can't be trusted to reliably hold up to the rigors of track abuse, and you really don't want to take the chance finding out if they are or not while hitting your brakes at 100 mph approaching a walled turn. Many people assume that novices do not overheat brakes as much as experienced higher level drivers do, but that is not necessarily the case at all. Experienced drivers have learned how to better use their brakes hard which means less time on the middle pedal and pads off the rotors, while less experienced drivers tend to have the pads touching the rotors for longer periods of time, thus continuing to heat them long before and after the advanced driver has already let off their brakes. So yes this brake cooling project is probably the first one you need to tackle as you get ready to continue pursuing some HPDE fun. Enjoy!

 

[GJarrett]

One more thing I forgot to add to possibly make this more expensive for you... the FIRST mod any Ecoboost owner makes is to upgrade the piece-of-junk worthless intercooler. The stock intercooler is trash and will heat soak after only one or two full throttle pulls, and then pull timing and lower power to protect the engine. This happens on the street all the time and absolutely kills power on the track full time. If you have a stock intercooler the first thing to do (even before brakes) to install a better intercooler. If you bought yours used and it is a PP model I highly suspect the prior owner has already done that for you, but check to make sure.

 

[blueracer130]

One more thing I forgot to add to possibly make this more expensive for you... the FIRST mod any Ecoboost owner makes is to upgrade the piece-of-junk worthless intercooler. The stock intercooler is trash and will heat soak after only one or two full throttle pulls, and then pull timing and lower power to protect the engine. This happens on the street all the time and absolutely kills power on the track full time. If you have a stock intercooler the first thing to do even before brakes to install a better intercooler. If you bought yours used and it is a PP model I highly suspect the prior owner has already done that for you, but check to make sure.

Thanks on brake updates and intercooler. The PP (sorry wrong name originally) does have bigger cooling package; unsure if that is radiator only or intercooler too. I didn’t have any issues on my day with engine but it was only around 75 since we were in IL. I will consider the intercooler though. I am looking at serious rotors (Steeda as you mentioned) or something else high end; likely slotted only. Will keep the drilled for my next street set! This is all super helpful! Thanks. PS on another topic: what did you do for a tow hook? Mine doesn’t have the preset hole.

 

[GJarrett]

Oh dear, the tow hook, get prepared to do some work LOL. I have the ZL1 tow hook installed in front and also have installed a rear mount behind the license plate that I can put that tow hook onto if needed to be pulled from the rear.

These require removing the front bumper and drilling into the frame rail to fashion your mount; there is no place predrilled to mount it. Drilling into that frame rail is tough, hard work; that is really, REALLY tough steel. I burned a couple of drill bits out and did a lot of cussing and was sore the next day from pushing the drill so hard but finally got it done. The rear was even more fun than the front because it was difficult to get a good angle to drill in behind the bumper...

I installed mine long ago so maybe there's a better solution nowadays, but if not, all I can say is.... Have fun LOL.

PS - the PP had a larger radiator to help engine cooling but still had the worthless intercooler.... if you did track it with the OEM intercooler then your car is probably faster than you think it is

 

[blueracer130]

Oh dear, the tow hook, get prepared to do some work LOL. I have the ZL1 tow hook installed in front and also have installed a rear mount behind the license plate that I can put that tow hook onto if needed to be pulled from the rear.

These require removing the front bumper and drilling into the frame rail to fashion your mount; there is no place predrilled to mount it. Drilling into that frame rail is tough, hard work; that is really, REALLY tough steel. I burned a couple of drill bits out and did a lot of cussing and was sore the next day from pushing the drill so hard but finally got it done. The rear was even more fun than the front because it was difficult to get a good angle to drill in behind the bumper...

I installed mine long ago so maybe there's a better solution nowadays, but if not, all I can say is.... Have fun LOL.

PS - the PP had a larger radiator to help engine cooling but still had the worthless intercooler.... if you did track it with the OEM intercooler then your car is probably faster than you think it is

Thanks…yeah that is unfortunate news but confirms what I thought. Thanks!

Hmm…maybe the vehicle does have a better intercooler…when I remove the bumper I will check! It does sound a bit more aggressive than other stock ones but I can’t figure out from what (no obvious exhaust, etc.)

Thanks for the tow hook advice.

 

[wgSlappz]

I'm not qualified to offer any advice as I'm new to modding and track days. I can only offer my experience running my bone stock base/non-PP A10 Ecoboost on the track earlier this year.

Before my first track day I took the car for the pre-tech inspection to a local shop owned and operated by a former NASA racer / HPDE instructor. After knowing my day was only going to consist of one introductory 25-minute session around VIR and I wouldn't be going 10/10ths, he felt comfortable letting me track the car w/ 50% on the stock pads with the stock rotors and the original DOT4 fluid. He was correct. I never went above highway speeds, and I never had any braking issues other than smelling them after lap 5 of 6.

He did advise me that since I would be doing a full day (four 25-minute sessions) at Barber a few weeks later to swap to race pads on the stock rotors. I chose EBC Blue Stuff.

During the sessions at Barber, I never went far above highway speeds for very long. The track pads did great, never smelled them, no fade. And no issues with the rotors.

Also, I will admit that my track days were in mid-March and early April when ambient temps were fairly mild, but I never noticed any heatsoaking/cooling issues or loss of power either time.

I plan to upgrade the braking and cooling systems as I do more track days because I'll progressively work the car harder as I learn. I'm just saying the original equipment worked fine for me at my first few HPDE events as a noob.

 

[blueracer130]

I'm not qualified to offer any advice as I'm new to modding and track days. I can only offer my experience running my bone stock base/non-PP A10 Ecoboost on the track earlier this year.

Before my first track day I took the car for the pre-tech inspection to a local shop owned and operated by a former NASA racer / HPDE instructor. After knowing my day was only going to consist of one introductory 25-minute session around VIR and I wouldn't be going 10/10ths, he felt comfortable letting me track the car w/ 50% on the stock pads with the stock rotors and the original DOT4 fluid. He was correct. I never went above highway speeds, and I never had any braking issues other than smelling them after lap 5 of 6.

He did advise me that since I would be doing a full day (four 25-minute sessions) at Barber a few weeks later to swap to race pads on the stock rotors. I chose EBC Blue Stuff.

During the sessions at Barber, I never went far above highway speeds for very long. The track pads did great, never smelled them, no fade. And no issues with the rotors.

Also, I will admit that my track days were in mid-March and early April when ambient temps were fairly mild, but I never noticed any heatsoaking/cooling issues or loss of power either time.

I plan to upgrade the braking and cooling systems as I do more track days because I'll progressively work the car harder as I learn. I'm just saying the original equipment worked fine for me at my first few HPDE events as a noob.

Hey, thanks. I agree, stock is fine for that short timeframe. The 4 sessions though was good you had some performance pads at least. Did the EBCs squeal at all or fairly quiet?

My first track day with (4) 25 min sessions was harder on brakes as I went to Blackhawk Farms which is a shorter 1.95 mile course with lots of braking…so a tough place to start regarding brakes anyways.

Next track I plan to go to is Road America which is about double the length and I hope I will have time for the rotors to cool on the straights. I have the Steeda slotted rotors now with a special heat coating so we will see how next time goes!

Good luck and keep on learning and having fun!