Time Trial groups

[Nbjeeptj]

I was doing HPDE days at CMP with turn one, then did a few time trails with SCCA, then went to NASA TT. I was able to get permission to skip the normal process of HPDE 1-4, check ride, provisional TT then TT license, by sending the director a verifiable resume with all my track experience along with a copy of my SCCA TT license. After they verified all that info they allowed me to sign up for a TT event. During this first event I was under a provisional TT license. I had to do the weekend without any issues (off track excursions, ignoring a flag, complaints from other racers etc), go to impound properly, and not miss any of the drivers meetings. Once I made it thru the provisional weekend I was signed off with a regular NASA TT license. Your mileage may vary, but this path also worked for a buddy of mine that followed me over from SCCA about a year later.

I was turned off at first about all the extra work to get the NASA TT license, and what seamed like a lot of extra scrutiny coming from SCCA, but it turns out I like these events a lot. Its a good group of people that work hard to keep the weekend moving and safe.

I don't know for sure what the criteria for getting the SCCA was. After about 30 track days with a few different groups and a few track nights in America, I applied for the SCCA time trail license and they gave it to me. Would they have done that with much less experience? Dont know. With that said the there was big experience level gap on the track at SCCA events. During a few time trails with them it seamed as if they had anything from pro level drivers to someone with one track night as there total experience. Not trying to knock SCCA at all, but there easy barrier to entry may end up making those events a little less safe, and probably the reason the NASA group I run with was so particular about the provisional to normal process for me, and others I have watched making the change.

 

[steveespo]

One thing you need to consider is how much track time do you enjoy or want during a weekend. TT is the least track time per $ of any discipline of amatuer road racing. With Nasa you will get a 15 minute warm up session, and 3 15 minute TT sessions a day. You can supersize and run either HPDE 3 or 4 but at added cost of course. And TT sessions are short, the out lap is part of your time, most TT drivers only do 2 hotlaps per session and then pit so as not to over use their tires. What then more often than not is the session will be flagged at the 10 minute mark with only 1 or 2 stragglers still on track. I did it for two years and didn't really enjoy it. Got comp license and have been racing for the past 2 years. That also is not without pitfalls as many Thunder Group races have long double yellow periods due to breakdowns or accidents on course. This limits the time for real racing. It's fun and I do enjoy the competition aspects, but sometimes I just want a nice 25 minute Chin Track Days Red Group session where I can get 10-15 hot laps without many interruptions. Enjoy whatever path you choose.
Steve

 

[PaddyPrix]

*great points*
Steve

The other side of it is the costs, as eventually you're going to add up your brakes, tires, gas, entry, towing, etc etc and eventually figure out how much it costs per session. The nice part is that many TT entrants, if comfortable enough, can ask to be an instructor, where you're responsible for providing some driver consistency on and off the track, and the schedule is generally set so (If you're doing just a few laps) you can still get back, do your post-run procedures, and have enough to make it to the classroom/download session (hpde 3+4 on track) and then to the grid for the hpde 1+2. In exchange for potentially risking your life and 4 in-car sessions, NASA will cover your entry, which is great if you're a shoe-string operation.

(Caveat is generally if you're TT only, as at least for us in Socal, the race group times are usually scattered and hard to do reliably unless you're part of a team where somebody else takes it out for warmup, qual, or race.)

 

[bronco100]

If not supercharged or turbo we will behind in grodlife.
Scca does bot have time trials in norcal
Gridlife does one event and it was full after 5mins.
Nasa is the simpler for me.
A note. If you have time trials experience and you are a good guy you can... jump some of the HPDE requirements.
Just go to an event. Register to hpde 4. And become friends with bunch of people

Not true regarding Gridlife. Mustangs generally run in Street GT class which do not even allow superchargers/turbo to be added onto the V8. There are also plenty of other classes that you can fit into if your Mustang is faster/slower. Since I have the 4 cylinder turbo I am in the Street class, and if I wanted to add a lot of aero I could move up to the StreetMod class. Mustangs have also found success running in the Gridlife Touring Club wheel to wheel series.

Gridlife has a lot more than 1 event, and they aren't full after 5 minutes. The next event at Heartlands Motorsports Park is in a couple weeks, and tickets for it have been available for many months and they are not sold out yet.

And no you typically can't jump HPDE requirements if you're a "good guy".

 

[flyhalf]

Not true regarding Gridlife. Mustangs generally run in Street GT class which do not even allow superchargers/turbo to be added onto the V8. There are also plenty of other classes that you can fit into if your Mustang is faster/slower. Since I have the 4 cylinder turbo I am in the Street class, and if I wanted to add a lot of aero I could move up to the StreetMod class. Mustangs have also found success running in the Gridlife Touring Club wheel to wheel series.

Gridlife has a lot more than 1 event, and they aren't full after 5 minutes. The next event at Heartlands Motorsports Park is in a couple weeks, and tickets for it have been available for many months and they are not sold out yet.

And no you typically can't jump HPDE requirements if you're a "good guy".

Im sure there are some exceptions. Who is doing successful w2w in gridlife?
A partially strip car goes in street mod or trackmod. Also they allowed aero.
The lower classes no. Here u compete with car with lots of power. And way lighter than 3700 3800lbs car .
If u want track mod...a twin turbo lap hero car will do the job. Or u "transform a gt500 like Steve Luca did.
I would love to partecipate to one event. They come twice a year in the west. 10days apart.
And this year streets of willow (not great track) and laguna (fully booked after 10mins)

 

[bronco100]

Im sure there are some exceptions. Who is doing successful w2w in gridlife?
A partially strip car goes in street mod or trackmod. Also they allowed aero. The lower classes no. Here u compete with car with lots of power. And way lighter than 3700 3800lbs car .
If u want track mod...a twin turbo lap hero car will.do.the job. Or u "trasform.a gt500 like Steve Luca did.
I would love to partecipate.to one event. They come twice a year in the west. 10days apart.
And this year streets of willow (not great track) and laguna (fully booked after 10mins)

I had a stroke trying to read that, but thanks for the reply. I don't know what your point is. It sounds like you want to participate in a Gridlife event but don't think you can.

The neat thing about the person who thinks they can do something, and the person who thinks they can't - they are both right!

 

[flyhalf]

I had a stroke trying to read that, but thanks for the reply. I don't know what your point is. It sounds like you want to participate in a Gridlife event but don't think you can.

The neat thing about the person who thinks they can do something, and the person who thinks they can't - they are both right!

Not sure what you mean with your comment.
I'll try again to summarize what i meant.
1. Gridlife is not present in the west. Max 1 or 2 events per year. Not enough to ensure a "full season"
2. I'm not sure about the others but when i do time trials I do it to perform well and try to reach the top in a fair competitions. Sometimes you win. Sometimes you loose. Otherwise... Is hpde.

I personally and again .. personally dont see the point to compete against cars with up to 200whp more than me. And sometimes. 1000lbs lighter.
The only thing why i would do it
is because the great environment.
That is why my preference goes to a organization with power to weight ratio.
However
I BELIEVE as mentioned in other posts , GRIDLIFE is a fast growing fun event. And maybe I'll twin turbo and send the car east to compete there!

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Bronco, come on and chill man, you are new on here and you might want to get to know folks a bit better before you start making assumptions. You are challenging folk's knowledge and experience while you are completely unaware you are talking to Championship Drivers and Track Record Holders with years of experience and National notoriety. Step back , read more and maybe trying being a sponge instead of a fire hose. Keep the excitement and passion, but take some time to get to know the Forum and folks on here, please.

 

[bronco100]

Bronco, come on and chill man, you are new on here and you might want to get to know folks a bit better before you start making assumptions. You are challenging folk's knowledge and experience while you are completely unaware you are talking to Championship Drivers and Track Record Holders with years of experience and National notoriety. Step back , read more and maybe trying being a sponge instead of a fire hose. Keep the excitement and passion, but take some time to get to know the Forum and folks on here, please.

I am chill, Bill, but why do you reply to nearly every post I make on this forum telling me to stop commenting? I'm simply providing information from what I know (most of which can also be found on Gridlife's website and their Discord if you're curious) but you find it necessary to troll me in the replies of every thread? You're telling me not to make assumptions, but you're making the assumption that I'm making any assumptions. Which I am not. Seems weird that you say I'm a "fire hose" - I've got 40 posts on here - you have nearly 8 thousand. Also seems super weird to flame people for contributing information on the forum.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Bronco, you are not commenting you are pontificating and you have a negative slant to virtually all your posts. You are telling folks who are professional racers, Time Trialers , etc. with no knowledge of who they are or who you seem to enjoy challenging. This is not a negative Forum, if you want to be find another site.

No surprise I have so many posts I have been a member here since 2011 !!!

 

[PatientZero]

Just treat this forum the opposite of how you would treat Facebook. Don't assume everyone is trying to start an argument.

 

[TMSBOSS]

Bronco. Advice is like a good medicine. It only has value If Taken.

At the risk of being called a Troll, god forbid.

Flyhalf is a national champion driving a car he Redesigned and improved while carefully threading his way through the rule book. Has Anyone else been able to made a 10 speed auto live on track While winning his a national championship? His ability to take a good product and make is perform and survive should be respected. Post championship he continues to improve his car(s) while Sharing his findings good or bad with forum members. And if you would take a bit more of Bills advice and read a bit you may dig up the fact that Flyhalf is a person who came to America as an adult and definitely communicates with a foreign flavor to his written word. This adds perspective that I hope you can taste and appreciate, if not, oh well.. As they say, your loss. Just my observation from life, but….. Anyone who pushes back when given advice is not worth helping.

 

[KazarS197]

@bronco100 Enough with rudeness, disrespect, passive aggressiveness and narssasitic attitude. We do not function that way here. I work at an elementary school and see more manners with second graders.... You've heard from multiple members now. It's probably best for you to clean it up or go away.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Yeah.. we have AJ Aquilante, Billy Johnson and a myriad of national and local championship drivers, crew and car owners from the US, Canada, Switzerland, Germany, the UK , South America, Australia and New Zealand, plus more than several engineers hanging around here. Sometimes we don't agree but we all respect the amount of experience on here and realize that there is more than one way to win races. With regards to your 4 banger, Kurt Rezzatano from Pheonix Performance in PA won at least 2 national championships with that combination before being legislated out of competition. So your car is a known quality.

 

[flyhalf]

.....I mean....i got a call from my wife saying I will be punished starring at the wall for 15mins

Joke aside. TMO is a best place where to learn about all the details and info on our cars .
I hope we could focus on that.
Alessandro

 

[Egparson202]

@flyhalf, Your contributions to our community have been valuable both from a technical and forum culture standpoint. Thank you. Keep up the good work.

Back on topic: I’ve begun considering re-entering the TT space myself. At present I’m thinking of a mixed schedule of HPDE, Track Days and TT to satisfy multiple needs. Some years back I had a very positive experience with NASA Southeast and NASA Mid-Atlantic. I think the power to weight based classing they use should make for a reasonably level playing field. That’s where I’m leaning.

 

[bronco100]

Just treat this forum the opposite of how you would treat Facebook. Don't assume everyone is trying to start an argument.

I literally commented encouraging the dude to compete in Gridlife and offering some helpful information on the classing and was jumped on by like five people. I guess people think their "racing pedigree" gives them free reign to just absolutely troll new users here.

 

[PatientZero]

I literally commented encouraging the dude to compete in Gridlife and offering some helpful information on the classing and was jumped on by like five people. I guess people think their "racing pedigree" gives them free reign to just absolutely troll new users here.

You were literally commenting on a person's grammar whom English I don't believe is his first language. Pretty high on the douchebaggery scale in my opinion.

 

[blacksheep-1]

I literally commented encouraging the dude to compete in Gridlife and offering some helpful information on the classing and was jumped on by like five people. I guess people think their "racing pedigree" gives them free reign to just absolutely troll new

In some cases, yes.
And you can add a NASA TT2 national championship. ( Mustang)
Daytona 24 ROAR pole ( Mercedes Benz )
And a couple more WRL and IMSA GS podiums to that list since those cards were printed.
Virtually EVERYONE on this site is trying to help you, but you need to dial it back just a bit.

 

[Ludachris]

Not true regarding Gridlife. Mustangs generally run in Street GT class which do not even allow superchargers/turbo to be added onto the V8. There are also plenty of other classes that you can fit into if your Mustang is faster/slower. Since I have the 4 cylinder turbo I am in the Street class, and if I wanted to add a lot of aero I could move up to the StreetMod class. Mustangs have also found success running in the Gridlife Touring Club wheel to wheel series.

Gridlife has a lot more than 1 event, and they aren't full after 5 minutes. The next event at Heartlands Motorsports Park is in a couple weeks, and tickets for it have been available for many months and they are not sold out yet.

And no you typically can't jump HPDE requirements if you're a "good guy".

I had a stroke trying to read that, but thanks for the reply. I don't know what your point is. It sounds like you want to participate in a Gridlife event but don't think you can.

The neat thing about the person who thinks they can do something, and the person who thinks they can't - they are both right!

I literally commented encouraging the dude to compete in Gridlife and offering some helpful information on the classing and was jumped on by like five people. I guess people think their "racing pedigree" gives them free reign to just absolutely troll new users here.

Your original reply to Alessandro argues 3 points he made in his post about Gridlife and jumping HPDE requirements for TT, but doesn't take into consideration that his experiences could actually be accurate in the region where he races. Then you post buyer/seller feedback for Alessandro for his writing (which has nothing to do with buying and selling by the way - I removed it), and comment about how you almost had a stroke reading his reply. Then when a few people jump in and point out the combative nature of some of the things said, you call them trolls for saying something about it.

Nobody is jumping on you because you're trying to share information. That reaction seems a bit disingenuous, or at the very least lacks some self awareness. The definition of trolling is posting messages with the intention of starting an argument or getting a rise out of someone that you disagree with. It's stirring the pot. Believe me, I'm very well versed in it, having managed online communities for almost 25 years now. The replies you're seeing from members here weren't doing that. They were asking you to be more thoughtful with your participation so that you don't come across as a troll yourself.

I don't get the feeling you were trying to troll anyone. You were sharing your experience, which conflicted with what Alessandro has experienced. Not to say both your experiences/perspectives weren't accurate. You just have to consider that before you point out that someone else is wrong. Especially in a community you haven't been involved in very long, where the person you're challenging is a long-time contributing member of the site and the larger Mustang racing community. Not that this gives anyone a free pass, or overrides the idea that everyone here should be treated with respect. But before you start calling people out for posting false information, it might make sense to get to know people and give them the benefit of the doubt - or at the very least, not be so combative about it when you make your own points that conflict with theirs.

This community has members with very different beliefs and personalities, and sometimes that causes some tension. But when we get back to the core of what this site is about, we remember that cars, wrenching, track time, racing, and talking shop brings us all together, regardless of the beliefs and personalities - in most cases .... it all boils down to treating people with respect and making a genuine attempt to get along with others, which I realize doesn't align with how the world works today if you look at social media, but hey. It's a worthy mission.

Now, with all of that out of the way... back on topic already.