S650 GT Track Alignment & Camber Arms

[krisk]

This is my first post in this forum, but I know often when people ask questions like I am about to, the main responses are "use the search function". I have searched and read many posts about alignment on this forum and other places. However, I still have some questions and am hoping some people with much more experience than me can help me out.

Here's some background. I have a 24 GT PP with MagneRide, and I've added several Steeda suspension components including front camber plates. The full list is included under my vehicle profile. I am new to tracking my car, and I have only taken my car to The FIRM in Starke, Florida. That is where I plan to track my car 90% of the time. Jamie with Steeda in Valdosta, GA did my alignment a couple months back after my first track day, a copy of which I have attached. He did say he didn't set the specs too aggressive since I would also be driving my car on the street. I have since purchased the Longacre digital caster camber gauge kit to enable me to adjust the alignment from track to street use. I don't daily drive my car, but I do put a few thousand miles a year on it just driving around, so I don't want to run an aggressive track alignment on the street.

My question concerns what the ideal alignment for my setup would be for running at The FIRM. The front camber is no big deal to adjust since I have the camber plates, but I don't have any camber arm installed in the rear. I know camber in the rear can be adjusted from the factory, but I understand it is a real pain to do and is limited to round -2.0. The second part of my question is whether I should add rear camber arms, and if so, what are people's recommendations for brands? I've looked at Steeda (which seems to be the most expensive), MMR and AAD. I like the AAD design because it looks like it would be easiest to switch between track and street specs once I got everything dialed in.

I look forward to hanging out in the forums, and I appreciate any input you who are more experienced can provide.

 

[byronj]

The S550 and S650 from what I have heard are very similar in camber settings. The thing is your track and street driving. For example: my buddy has a car set up just like mine. I am faster so my camber is more aggressive than his. It works for my skill set on the track. His settings are good for him on the track. To me 2.7 is a good spot to be. I was at 2.9 on my FP springs and went with stiffer springs and the same camber. Well, I destroyed the inside of my tires at 2.9 and I decided to pull back to 2.5. We will see what happens

 

[Bill Pemberton]

I would suggest you increase the rear negative camber to around -1.9 to -2.1 , as I do not think -1.2/-1.3 is a good balance for the track , imho.

 

[GAR944]

This is my first post in this forum, but I know often when people ask questions like I am about to, the main responses are "use the search function". I have searched and read many posts about alignment on this forum and other places. However, I still have some questions and am hoping some people with much more experience than me can help me out.

Here's some background. I have a 24 GT PP with MagneRide, and I've added several Steeda suspension components including front camber plates. The full list is included under my vehicle profile. I am new to tracking my car, and I have only taken my car to The FIRM in Starke, Florida. That is where I plan to track my car 90% of the time. Jamie with Steeda in Valdosta, GA did my alignment a couple months back after my first track day, a copy of which I have attached. He did say he didn't set the specs too aggressive since I would also be driving my car on the street. I have since purchased the Longacre digital caster camber gauge kit to enable me to adjust the alignment from track to street use. I don't daily drive my car, but I do put a few thousand miles a year on it just driving around, so I don't want to run an aggressive track alignment on the street.

My question concerns what the ideal alignment for my setup would be for running at The FIRM. The front camber is no big deal to adjust since I have the camber plates, but I don't have any camber arm installed in the rear. I know camber in the rear can be adjusted from the factory, but I understand it is a real pain to do and is limited to round -2.0. The second part of my question is whether I should add rear camber arms, and if so, what are people's recommendations for brands? I've looked at Steeda (which seems to be the most expensive), MMR and AAD. I like the AAD design because it looks like it would be easiest to switch between track and street specs once I got everything dialed in.

I look forward to hanging out in the forums, and I appreciate any input you who are more experienced can provide.

The guys that did my initial setup had an alignment for the front that would toe out at max -ve camber and come back to a less aggressive setting when the struts were pulled back to minimum.
Used that about once as the spring pressure made it a prick of a job to pull them back to minimum. Pushing them in was easy.

My question becomes why don't you want to run an "aggressive" track alignment on the street. You aren't daily driving it and a few thousand miles compared to track miles in nothing in the grand scheme. Tyre life isn't a huge issue at that distance with multiple track days for a year. You are also running a pretty normal road tyre compared to a soft or very soft compound track spec tyre.

The rear end on the stock S550 walked around a lot so i did change everything to get rid of the rubber bushings back there. It's also complicated as far as alignment goes and just adjusting one arm to change camber does more than that to the whole hub.

What i'm getting at is, get it aligned for the track and get used to driving it like that. I have learned that just because you can doesn't mean you should. Apply that to making adjustments to alignment that significantly alter the handling characteristics. You paid a guy with an expensive digital set up to do it for you. Now you want to try duplicate that on the floor of your garage with strings and tape measure. Not knocking that method as it has been used forever on racecars but even there its a way more precise setup.

On the road the front toe setting will have the most effect to the car wanting to follow every bump and camber change. Drive with soft arms but a firm grip and allow it to be "guided" by you. Let it wander within reason. Get used to feeling what the car does and how it behaves.
Pretty much everyone here will say the best thing you can do to improve your car is seat time for the one behind the wheel. Why does it feel different to last time, did i adjust it right, did something move. All the things you don't want to have to worry about. You drive it on the road or track and it feels like the same car to you builds your confidence in it.

Here are my setting and its driven like yours, track days and the occasional car meet or sunny weekend squirt.


And pay attention to @Bill Pemberton above, he may have driven a few in his time.


And your car looks great in your profile photo, reds not normally my colour but that shot is awesome, the right angle, wheel turned, all the details just make it a glamour shot.

 

[krisk]

I would suggest you increase the rear negative camber to around -1.9 to -2.1 , as I do not think -1.2/-1.3 is a good balance for the track , imho.

Thank you for the suggestion. So the question is, if I adjust the rear camber myself is it going to throw off the toe? I'm looking to see if I would be ok to make the adjustment or if I'm going to need to get a professional alignment again.

 

[krisk]

The guys that did my initial setup had an alignment for the front that would toe out at max -ve camber and come back to a less aggressive setting when the struts were pulled back to minimum.
Used that about once as the spring pressure made it a prick of a job to pull them back to minimum. Pushing them in was easy.

My question becomes why don't you want to run an "aggressive" track alignment on the street. You aren't daily driving it and a few thousand miles compared to track miles in nothing in the grand scheme. Tyre life isn't a huge issue at that distance with multiple track days for a year. You are also running a pretty normal road tyre compared to a soft or very soft compound track spec tyre.

The rear end on the stock S550 walked around a lot so i did change everything to get rid of the rubber bushings back there. It's also complicated as far as alignment goes and just adjusting one arm to change camber does more than that to the whole hub.

What i'm getting at is, get it aligned for the track and get used to driving it like that. I have learned that just because you can doesn't mean you should. Apply that to making adjustments to alignment that significantly alter the handling characteristics. You paid a guy with an expensive digital set up to do it for you. Now you want to try duplicate that on the floor of your garage with strings and tape measure. Not knocking that method as it has been used forever on racecars but even there its a way more precise setup.

On the road the front toe setting will have the most effect to the car wanting to follow every bump and camber change. Drive with soft arms but a firm grip and allow it to be "guided" by you. Let it wander within reason. Get used to feeling what the car does and how it behaves.
Pretty much everyone here will say the best thing you can do to improve your car is seat time for the one behind the wheel. Why does it feel different to last time, did i adjust it right, did something move. All the things you don't want to have to worry about. You drive it on the road or track and it feels like the same car to you builds your confidence in it.

Here are my setting and its driven like yours, track days and the occasional car meet or sunny weekend squirt.
View attachment 98144

And pay attention to @Bill Pemberton above, he may have driven a few in his time.


And your car looks great in your profile photo, reds not normally my colour but that shot is awesome, the right angle, wheel turned, all the details just make it a glamour shot.

Thank you for the information. My only reason for not wanting to run that track alignment on the street is for reasons of tire wear. Initially, I planned to just leave it as it was setup for the track and drive it the street as it was. Then I decided to take the Mustang on a 1,000 mile road trip to the Ford Performance Racing School in Charlotte, so I figured since I was going to be driving it 1,000 miles on the street I may be better to reduce the camber for purposes or even tire wear. I may very well leave the camber settings for the track in the future as you have suggested. Your point about getting used to driving it with the track settings and taking away a variable between track sessions is a good one.

Thanks for the compliment on the car. I'm a Race Red fan; my 2019 was the same color. In almost all aspects of my life I am a low key and fly under the radar type of person; the exception to the rule is my car.

 

[krisk]

The S550 and S650 from what I have heard are very similar in camber settings. The thing is your track and street driving. For example: my buddy has a car set up just like mine. I am faster so my camber is more aggressive than his. It works for my skill set on the track. His settings are good for him on the track. To me 2.7 is a good spot to be. I was at 2.9 on my FP springs and went with stiffer springs and the same camber. Well, I destroyed the inside of my tires at 2.9 and I decided to pull back to 2.5. We will see what happens

I appreciate the feedback. I'll certainly keep an eye on my tire wear to see if it looks like I may need to make adjustments.

 

[GJarrett]

Curious that no one has commented that he has toe out in front. I guess that is ok? I was thinking he might want to pull it in to zero (?)

 

[GAR944]

Curious that no one has commented that he has toe out in front. I guess that is ok? I was thinking he might want to pull it in to zero (?)

Toe out will improve turn in response, it will also make it dart around on uneven surfaces and tend to tug on the wheel. Good track cars tend to make entertaining road cars. Racetracks "should" have way better surfaces than your average road. As such the car behaves as we want and way more pleasant and predictable to drive. Everything in a setup is a compromise, what do you prioritize over another, what does your driving style suit. Where I once worked we had a setup for 80's 911's that just worked. Except for one person who had an oddball setup. Thing was he ended up being club champion a few times. If it works it works.

Just checked his settings and they are effectively zero anyway. Second decimal point in degrees is not worth looking at on a system that has any rubber bushings. Under load they will toe out more as well. Mine will make you start guessing the laws of physics.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Likely you would need to have the alignment done professionally , though I am surprised that whoever did it was not more aggressive in the rear , considering what they established for you in the front.