Ford plans to sell ONLY electric vehicles in Europe by 2030

[Ludachris]

I don't see that happening in the US for quite some time (since their trucks sell so well) but it's still a bit troubling to see them making these announcements. I know some of us are growing tired of these discussions but I figured since it's Ford news, it's worth mentioning here.

Ford Will Go All-Electric in Europe by 2030

Plus, Honda R&D boss to become CEO, and changes for the Australian Grand Prix track.

www.roadandtrack.com

 

[Bill Pemberton]

I do not believe GM, Ford, FCA/PSA,etc. will even be completely EV by 2035, though they may all be hybrid. The reasoning is not so much that it can't be done, it is more of a case where you will not likely be able to convert everyone in the US. There are places in Nebraska, Wyoming, Montana, Utah, Nevada, North Dakota, South Dakota, New Mexico, Colorado , even Arizona ( to name a few ) , where the towns are quite small and the drive to a major area is just too far to make folks comfortable, and grid structures will still not hit everywhere. The proof is in the fact that after all these years there are spots out there that still do not have adequate internet service , so setting up a grid in Northeastern Montana ( for instance ) could tax the infrastructure. The other concern will be consumer preferences, and we are seeing that dynamic today, since truck and SUV sales are gigantic and companies are dropping almost the entire car line. Many of us will likely have one vehicle that is EV, but I imagine there will be plenty who still have a gas/diesel burner. Not a political statement at all , simply a consumer issue because humans don't like change even if it might be to their benefit. We know that just by viewing history over the past 200 years, and I do believe as other have stated that the other tremendous hurdle is getting our infrastructure up to actually power a Nationwide grid.

Funny how that is being tested right now with the super cold weather and the last two decade has seen California ( for instance ) hammered with grid failures and power outages. We are 20-30 years behind getting roads and bridges up to safe standards in many States, so getting EVs into a master plan is not ( in my mind ) just a case of the vehicles, it is a situation of building systems and getting power to those places and that gives me a 2050 timetable for actual completion -- that was a fun projection since I won't be around for folks to complain if it doesn't happen, ha.

The interesting thing is I am not anti EV, I can honestly see the place for one in our family, but not for my truck, not for my racecar, so, though Blacksheep has warned us all of the issues with hybrids, that probably is where my future lies and I actually think there will be some fast, and yes fun, surprises to come from that type of automotive conveyance.

 

[TMSBOSS]

Agree. When you talk to Europeans about travel within the US they first wonder why it takes you days to get where you are going. Then you explain the mileage involved and they understand. For them, traveling to another country is similar to us traveling to another state. It only take a few hours and they are there. So, the idea of EV's being popular in the EU is not surprising. The EV fits their needs well. As Bill pointed out, the vast distances many in America travel just cant be served by an EV using todays technology. US government travel rates and times allotted 9 days to travel from our main training base to the base I was stationed at. I could not begin to imagine how much longer the trip would have to be if driving an EV. They are likely a great commuter car. Long distances.....not so much.

 

[Mad Hatter]

Interesting to think that approximately 40% of the oil used in the US is for gasoline used in transportation. So if we go only 50% electric in the next 15 years... That would bring the price of oil crashing down.

On the positive side, in the next 15 years battery life should probably double from present levels. Maybe its time to get some solar panels installed?

 

[JDee]

I'm buying a new DD in spring, would like to buy a hybrid. Until I look at the huge difference in price, then I'm all OK with another gasser....

 

[67GTA]

so setting up a grid in Northeastern Montana ( for instance ) could tax the infrastructure.

As a native Montanan, born and raised in NE Montana, I had a good laugh when I read your post Bill! The area was recently identified by a group of researchers at Oxford as the official “middle of no where”! Link below for a good read that shines a light on the geographic headwinds to EV adoption in the mountain-west part of the country.

Also of note and ironic to this conversation, NE Montana is home to Fort Peck Dam, the largest hydro-electric earth filled dam in the US (2nd in the world). And like most remotely located power plants, all output is carried out of state and sold into grids supporting metro populations. So while not having the most robust local infrastructure, the region plays a pretty important role in supporting the urbanites.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ble-we-set-out-to-find-the-middle-of-nowhere/

 

[Bill Pemberton]

The original owner of Woodhouse Auto Family ( Bob Woodhouse ) was a Montana farm boy who ended up becoming a Zone Rep. for Ford Service and eventually bought the Ford Store in Blair, Ne. He and I met autocrossing and even though I had my own business he bugged me for years to come and work for him because he knew my passion for cars. I must have subconsciously used your State from the years of teasing Bob with the old Big Sky cliche, " Montana, where men are men and sheep are scared!" We gave him a stuffed toy sheep one year as a trophy -- it was a simpler time, a gentler time, a foolish time, it was the 80s, ha,ha. Needless to say, living in Kansas at the time, I was rewarded with plenty of Dorothy and Toto ribbings and all was in good fun --- frankly we were a bit sophomoric in our childish humor.

Appreciate your trivia about the Fort Peck Dam as it just adds to what many know to be one of the most impressive States in America. With Glacier National Park, an entrance to Yellowstone, the battle site of Little Big Horn, etc. there is a ton of stuff to see and do there, and you and I know I could have just said Northeastern Nebraska, ha.

But these areas in Midwestern and Western States have distances between towns, villages, etc. many realize will wait a long time before the infrastructure appears.

PS - after 27 years at the Woodhouse Auto Family selling primarily performance machines, I am going to enjoy retirement racing, and I often say thanks to that Montana boy who cajoled me to leave Kansas and move to a little town of 8,000 folks in Cornland!

 

[TymeSlayer]

Where do all these dead batteries go? I know here in Colorado you can't (or aren't suppose to) throw them (Even "AA" and the like) in the trash. I do bring my little batteries to the local Home Depot for disposal but have no idea what becomes of them after that.

 

[Ludachris]

Where do all these dead batteries go? I know here in Colorado you can't (or aren't suppose to) throw them (Even "AA" and the like) in the trash. I do bring my little batteries to the local Home Depot for disposal but have no idea what becomes of them after that.

All batteries are supposed to be recycled, but it's certainly a whole lot easier to just toss them in the trash, which is why so many of them end up in the landfills. Here in our area you can find recycling drop offs at Best Buy, some grocery stores, and other places, but trying to remember to bring your container full of dead batteries with you to the store - that's the tough part. If you look up battery recycling you can get some more info on how much of the battery gets recycled and what gets tossed - I looked it up when I was wondering about this. Found a few good resources (which I didn't save).

From what I remember reading it isn't like plastic, which gets thrown in the landfill in large quantities in the end anyway, even after going through the recycling process - much of the plastic recycling movement has been a marketing ploy by plastics manufacturers to sell more products in plastic. My guess is that automotive batteries will be largely recycled. It obviously won't be a zero waste affair, but they should be able to neutralize the toxic chemicals in the process, the way they do household batteries when they get recycled.

 

[TymeSlayer]

That's Interesting. I bring my old car batteries to NAPA or whatever place I buy my new one but I never understood what the process is after I drop them off. I think what concerns me is that going from one per car to however many there are in an EV will create a hell of a lot more waste. I know there's a lot of toxins but need to better understand the recycling process. Something to do in my spare tyme!

This is what I did find regarding the Tesla Model X:
"The 85 kWh battery pack weighs 1,200 lb (540 kg) and contains 7,104 lithium-ion battery cells in 16 modules wired in series (14 in the flat section and two stacked on the front). Each module contains 6 groups of 74 cells wired in parallel; the 6 groups are then wired in series within the module."

 

[Ludachris]

I think what concerns me is that going from one per car to however many there are in an EV will create a hell of a lot more waste.

Valid concern. We'll see how it plays out. Found this article in a quick search:

The Race To Crack Battery Recycling—Before It’s Too Late

Millions of EVs will soon hit the road, but the world isn’t ready for their old batteries. A crop of startups wants to crack this billion-dollar problem.

www.wired.com

 

[TymeSlayer]

Good read Chris, thanks for sharing.

 

[Ludachris]

Good read Chris, thanks for sharing.

Anytyme!

 

[John48]

I don't see that happening in the US for quite some time (since their trucks sell so well) but it's still a bit troubling to see them making these announcements. I know some of us are growing tired of these discussions but I figured since it's Ford news, it's worth mentioning here.

Ford Will Go All-Electric in Europe by 2030

Plus, Honda R&D boss to become CEO, and changes for the Australian Grand Prix track.

www.roadandtrack.com

I have watched Teslas kicking butt at autocross events and I would imagine EVs will become common place in major motorsports in the near future. This is definitely not an endorsement. I love the sound of internal combustion race engines at full song, especially the scream of V8s with 180 degree headers that were common many years go. I do have concerns with what will become of our gasoline supply, pricing, and available fuel grades once EVs take over. At the neighborhood stations I have witnessed over the years the disapperance of very high octane leaded gas, then all leaded fuels, and lastly alcohol-free gas. I can't imagine that an influx of EVs will actually lower gas prices as supply will dwindle, and it may become very hard and expensive to find premium unleaded, if even still available.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

We see dates of 2030 and 2035 or even 2050 and we all have a tendency to " Cry Wolf " worrying about concerns about fuel supplies dwindling way into the future. With so many Countries dependent on oil for their economies ( Middle East , Russia , even the US ) , I am fairly confident things will be still quite competitive. Using a rationale of 2030 being the first year of Electric Only vehicles we need to pause and remember we have close to 10 more years of production of gasoline powered vehicles. Take the current population of petrol based machines, add in 10 more and there will be a slew of internal combustion vehicles needing fuel. In my humble opinion it could be well into the middle of the Century before fuel becomes more limited, but infrastructure of some parts of the World is lagging so far behind, that there will likely be a place for fossil fuels even beyond that. With petroleum based products also likely to continue , there are many other areas that will keep the industry continuing for a very long time , even at a much smaller scale.

 

[TMSBOSS]

infrastructure of some parts of the World is lagging so far behind

WHAT??? The whole world is not like metropolitan America. The heck you say.....LOL.
I have lived in areas where fuel is brought in by the can and sold at the general store....if you can call it that. No infrastructure, No electric service, some cell phones and power from a few IC generators is a luxury. Still, they get around in their 10-25 years old mini pickups. And we are foolish enough to think the world is ready for electric cars just because a few areas in a few cities are??? "I laugh at your superior intellect" (A Star Trek quote).
See the world NOT via a flat screen. Its enlightening.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

So , I take it you agree with those statements ,ha?

 

[honeybadger]

There’s also a big push to upcycle batteries. Most batteries will have a much longer life than most of us expect. So batteries could be pulled out of an EV and put into a battery tied to the energy grid to store power. Of course they won’t work at 100% capacity, but they’ll work for years at 60-70%. That’ll help in many ways. Still gotta improve recycling at true end of life, tho.

 

[302BOB]

Jaguar wants to be the first to go all electric. They're aiming for 2025...... https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/15/22284000/jaguar-land-rover-electric-cars-i-pace-2025

 

[Ludachris]

and it may become very hard and expensive to find premium unleaded, if even still available.

With all the cars out there running OEM turbo configurations these days to help with MPG, premium unleaded should be here for a while, but who knows...