Huge brake upgrade for S197 chassis

[Vettel-ish]

Wanted to give you all an update on the "dead" zone with the s550 upgrade. Installed gloc R18 pads last week and then ran Road America over the weekend. Wow what a difference. 80% of that pedal movement was gone and the stopping power is next level. If you are tracking your s550 setup. Gloc R18.. a must. O and of course order them from @OPMustang Tim. Next update will be adding gyrodisk. Tim said that will even make the pedal feel better as well.

 

[Mad Hatter]

Very true. Have been running Gloc 18 pads for a while now and even when cold on the street, the brakes are truly magnificent. Tim has the slightly thicker pads as well.

Would love to go the the girodisks one day, but for now the Stock gt500 disks are US180 a pair. Hard to beat.

 

[67GTA]

Wanted to give you all an update on the "dead" zone with the s550 upgrade. Installed gloc R18 pads last week and then ran Road America over the weekend. Wow what a difference. 80% of that pedal movement was gone and the stopping power is next level. If you are tracking your s550 setup. Gloc R18.. a must. O and of course order them from @OPMustang Tim. Next update will be adding gyrodisk. Tim said that will even make the pedal feel better as well.

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Yeah, I was skeptical that a pad change could have such a dramatic impact on pedal feel, but completely agree that R18’s are the ticket.

 

[bc95]

Figured I'd throw my 2 cents in here as well and say that I agree that the r18s are a game changer for the s550 pp brakes. I found they really firmed up the pedal and the stopping power was next level. Coming from hawk dtc-60s and there is no comparison. And get them from opmustang because they have an r18a which is apparently a little thicker and works better with the s197 rotor.

 

[barry Powell]

Honestly the best way to use these brakes in a advanced track or race situation is to double tap into the high speed brake zones. I had no issue with consistency, that would be a function of pad compound and temps. The travel is longer for a given pressure because of the stated piston volume vs the master cylinder output volume. Tapping the pedal takes up the knockback of the pads enough that the pedal then engages at a higher point during the braking event. I found it only really needed at the ends of high speed straights where braking deltas were -50 mph or more. In lighter brake applications pump up wasn't needed or timely. This is not ideal, but compared to the stock 4 piston Brembos or 2 piston floaters on a S197 these brakes are a big upgrade.

Steve it seems like you know a lot about brakes so I would like to run this past you and if you could tell me what you think I would apreciate it. I have a 1967 fairlane with the complete running rear from a 2019 mustang gt in it. Front suspension,rear independint suspension,10 speed trans and of course coyote engine. Due to space I was not able to use a brake booster but did use the wilwood master cyl and have to say with the stock mustang brakes the set up works pretty well but I would really like more brakes. Willwood said the only other thing I could do is to go to 6 piston so the setup that you described seems like it would work. Is this what you would do? Also when I search the ford part number it came up as a 4 piston on the ford site. Would the police calipers work off rock auto they are about the same price? Thank You Barry

 

[2012-Boss]

Barry,

You need to find someone who has the knowledge to design a complete brake system, or buy some reference / text books and learn the equations and math to calculate brake torque at each wheel, front to rear bias, etcetera. I would suggest researching on a Pro-touring site for some help with classic car brake upgrades. Caliper piston area, master cylinder boar size, rotor sizes, and pad coefficient of friction all impact brake torque and front to rear bias. You are asking advice on mixing and matching parts vs. designing a system. That is a classic recipe for a poor performing brake "upgrade" in a classic car.

You need to ask Wilwood exactly why the mentioned a six piston caliper. Was it for an increase in piston area, swept area, or rotor diameter? All other things being equal a single piston caliper with the same total piston area as a six piston caliper will generate the same amount of brake torque.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

.......and always ask Tim at OP for Pre-Bedded pads. I have run G-Locs for years and supposedly had the first set of R18s sold to someone when they were first out ( have known the owner for a decade and a half ). Definitely a good pad and OP always has a good stock.

 

[barry Powell]

Barry,

You need to find someone who has the knowledge to design a complete brake system, or buy some reference / text books and learn the equations and math to calculate brake torque at each wheel, front to rear bias, etcetera. I would suggest researching on a Pro-touring site for some help with classic car brake upgrades. Caliper piston area, master cylinder boar size, rotor sizes, and pad coefficient of friction all impact brake torque and front to rear bias. You are asking advice on mixing and matching parts vs. designing a system. That is a classic recipe for a poor performing brake "upgrade" in a classic car.

You need to ask Wilwood exactly why the mentioned a six piston caliper. Was it for an increase in piston area, swept area, or rotor diameter? All other things being equal a single piston caliper with the same total piston area as a six piston caliper will generate the same amount of brake torque.

Just so you know the complete running gear in this car is 2019 mustang with the exception of the master cyl and the weight ratio is lighter on the fairlane than the mustang body it came from under so how much would this differ than the 2019 stock mustang?

 

[2012-Boss]

You changed the master cylinder, which changes line pressure, which changes overall brake torque generated at each wheel.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Steve it seems like you know a lot about brakes so I would like to run this past you and if you could tell me what you think I would apreciate it. I have a 1967 fairlane with the complete running rear from a 2019 mustang gt in it. Front suspension,rear independint suspension,10 speed trans and of course coyote engine. Due to space I was not able to use a brake booster but did use the wilwood master cyl and have to say with the stock mustang brakes the set up works pretty well but I would really like more brakes. Willwood said the only other thing I could do is to go to 6 piston so the setup that you described seems like it would work. Is this what you would do? Also when I search the ford part number it came up as a 4 piston on the ford site. Would the police calipers work off rock auto they are about the same price? Thank You Barry

Give these guys a call, tell them Rob sent you..

Classic cars and trucks | Forte's Classic Garage | Largo Florida

Classic and Muscle car custom builds and restorations. Customs. Hot Rods. Slammed Rides. Custom suspensions and brakes. A/C installs and more. Forte's Classic Garage

www.fortesonline.com

 

[steveespo]

Just so you know the complete running gear in this car is 2019 mustang with the exception of the master cyl and the weight ratio is lighter on the fairlane than the mustang body it came from under so how much would this differ than the 2019 stock mustang?

You need to replicate the displacement of the S550 PP master cylinder. Ideally that would be using the S550 booster/MC setup but I understand your room constraints. The Wilwood stuff is not race quality, a friend of mine tried exactly what you are doing in a S197 (my old car) and it was a nightmare, which resulted in him finally investing in an AP Race caliper/OEM S197 Booster/MC setup. I would look at Tilton pedal/MC packages for something compatible in master cylinder bore and stroke size. Capaldi Racing runs a manual brake setup in their S197 using a Tilton pedal box. Just some examples that give you an idea on stuff that works in race applications. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...ngineering&utm_campaign=Part+Number+Ad+Groups https://www.summitracing.com/parts/til-74-875u

 

[67GTA]

Steve it seems like you know a lot about brakes so I would like to run this past you and if you could tell me what you think I would apreciate it. I have a 1967 fairlane with the complete running rear from a 2019 mustang gt in it. Front suspension,rear independint suspension,10 speed trans and of course coyote engine. Due to space I was not able to use a brake booster but did use the wilwood master cyl and have to say with the stock mustang brakes the set up works pretty well but I would really like more brakes. Willwood said the only other thing I could do is to go to 6 piston so the setup that you described seems like it would work. Is this what you would do? Also when I search the ford part number it came up as a 4 piston on the ford site. Would the police calipers work off rock auto they are about the same price? Thank You Barry

I can’t be the only one that would love to see details and pictures of your build. I am a bit biased towards the Fairlane’s though! If you’re up for it, create a car profile which will automatically create a build thread. Knowing that a modern Mustang drivetrain can be adapted to the Fairlane chassis has all kinds of bad ideas running through my head!

 

[Theviking]

I've been running R10/R8 pads for 4 track sessions now (TNiA). Pads were great for the first day or two and then they started to go away quickly. At least as far as feedback and ultimate braking levels are concerned. For reference the car is a 2012 Mustang with 13/14 GT500 Brembo's, GyroDisc rotors, cooling ducts, and a pretty well sorted suspension. Running 265/285 GYSC3's. Yesterday the brakes felt very wooden with considerably less feedback and confidence. They still "worked" but absolutely nothing like when they were new.

Based on what I'm reading it seems like the R18 compound is a good next step. If anyone has other suggestions please let me know. I swap the front pads for a street friendly compound when not on track so sort of stuck with the GLOC stuff for now. Thanks,.

 

[Coz]

anyone has other suggestions please let me know.

With only 265s on the front I think R18s are overkill. I have 295s on a 18x10 and the R16s are just right. I had tried the R12s but they did not have as much bite as the Power Stop Track Day pads I was using. The R16 works great. I recommend you try the R12: but unless you're getting wider tires, nothing higher than the R16. But even they might be too much for 265s.

 

[Coz]

What brand of brake fluid are you running and did you bleed your brakes after the first two days?

 

[Bill Pemberton]

I ran R18s all the time in front, but I am super aggressive on pads and they need heat, but they will take plenty of heat. I would go to the R16s as noted, use 10s in the rear and make sure they are absolutely pre-bedded. After years or using G-Locs I find heavier cars go through a 12 pretty fast, but they have nice feel. If you don't mind buying pads a little sooner, 12s should work, but if you are super aggressive you could consider the R18 ( it is essentially an endurance racing pad ). Good luck and I am not surprised you went through the 10s quickly - they are fine for the rear.

 

[Theviking]

With only 265s on the front I think R18s are overkill. I have 295s on a 18x10 and the R16s are just right. I had tried the R12s but they did not have as much bite as the Power Stop Track Day pads I was using. The R16 works great. I recommend you try the R12: but unless you're getting wider tires, nothing higher than the R16. But even they might be too much for 265s.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to go to a 11" squared wheel setup once I wear these tires out but looks like I have at least a couple more days on them. The SC3's do run very wide for their size, at least compared to my Pilot 4's I run on the street in the same setup.

 

[Theviking]

What brand of brake fluid are you running and did you bleed your brakes after the first two days?

I run Castrol SRF. I haven't done a full flush in at least 2 track days but I do bleed them before every event/day. Is there anything special that needs to be done to account for the ABS system during bleeding? I just use the old fashioned pump and hold technique.

 

[Theviking]

I ran R18s all the time in front, but I am super aggressive on pads and they need heat, but they will take plenty of heat. I would go to the R16s as noted, use 10s in the rear and make sure they are absolutely pre-bedded. After years or using G-Locs I find heavier cars go through a 12 pretty fast, but they have nice feel. If you don't mind buying pads a little sooner, 12s should work, but if you are super aggressive you could consider the R18 ( it is essentially an endurance racing pad ). Good luck and I am not surprised you went through the 10s quickly - they are fine for the rear.

Thanks Bill. I would say I'm reasonably aggressive on pads. I bought the pads and rotors from Tim and I honestly have no idea if they were pre-bedded or not. I'll reach out to him about the R16's and see if I can at least keep my rear R8 pads of if they need to go as well . I definitely don't want to do another event on the current setup.

 

[Mad Hatter]

I run Castrol SRF. I haven't done a full flush in at least 2 track days but I do bleed them before every event/day. Is there anything special that needs to be done to account for the ABS system during bleeding? I just use the old fashioned pump and hold technique.

With Castrol SRF you just need to bleed them and flush if it gets very dirty.. that stuff lasts for ever. Its wet boiling point is higher then most dry brake fluid boiling points.