Huge brake upgrade for S197 chassis

[Coz]

. Is there anything special that needs to be done to account for the ABS system during bleeding?

If you're not having a problem with your pedal, you don't need to worry about the ABS during track day bleedings.

 

[Theviking]

Thanks! For what it cost it should last forever

 

[Mad Hatter]

Thanks! For what it cost it should last forever

In the end its really the most economic brake liquid!! Started out using ATE Blue and that's only good for one track day... if that. With Castrol SRF you pay $60 per Liter and flush the fluid once a season, and that's only to be safe, its still working well after numerous track days. Not to mention it has never boiled on me so far. Love the stuff!

 

[Fabman]

In the end its really the most economic brake liquid!! Started out using ATE Blue and that's only good for one track day... if that. With Castrol SRF you pay $60 per Liter and flush the fluid once a season, and that's only to be safe, its still working well after numerous track days. Not to mention it has never boiled on me so far. Love the stuff!

Good to know...

 

[Adam Ginsberg]

In the end its really the most economic brake liquid!! Started out using ATE Blue and that's only good for one track day... if that. With Castrol SRF you pay $60 per Liter and flush the fluid once a season, and that's only to be safe, its still working well after numerous track days. Not to mention it has never boiled on me so far. Love the stuff!

Your experience is completely opposite of mine - I ran ATE Super Blue in my CMC car, and it was only flushed annually. Never, ever boiled the fluid, rock solid pedal even after a full hour of racing. It was the same when I moved from the 2p PBRs to the 4p StopTechs.

Granted, my CMC car was ~3100lbs, only made ~250rwhp/290rwtq, but I was on 16" Toyo RA1s, then 17" R888s.

 

[g0max]

Has anyone encountered issues with the TC/ABS kicking on in corners and this particular brake upgrade ?? I had my boss at CTMP last week and the front wheels were randomly locking up in the middle of turn 2 (which in itself is terrifying) and turn 8 (high speed sweeper).. TC was in sport mode as well, and there wasn't any ABS or advance track errors when I ran my OBD II scanner following the session

 

[TMSBOSS]

g0max
to totally shut down TC you must replace the stock ABS module with one from the 302R/S. Regardless what you do with the stock unit, it will turn back on if you are running hard.

They are pricey and hard to find at times.
Lethal shows thay have on in stock.

Ford Performance Boss 302R/302S Abs Module - M-2353-CA

Ford Performance Boss 302R/302S Abs Module - M-2353-CA

www.lethalperformance.com

Sticker shock warnIng

 

[Mad Hatter]

Your experience is completely opposite of mine - I ran ATE Super Blue in my CMC car, and it was only flushed annually. Never, ever boiled the fluid, rock solid pedal even after a full hour of racing. It was the same when I moved from the 2p PBRs to the 4p StopTechs.

Granted, my CMC car was ~3100lbs, only made ~250rwhp/290rwtq, but I was on 16" Toyo RA1s, then 17" R888s.

I think the key is the weight, I am at 3500 lbs and with well over 400rwhp with wide slicks. But to be honest I would boil the ate in my nearly stock Boss on 275's. Switching to SRF ended all by brake fluid woes.

Ran with SRF in a 3 hour endurance race and the pedal never changed all the way through the race.

 

[Mad Hatter]

g0max
to totally shut down TC you must replace the stock ABS module with one from the 302R/S. Regardless what you do with the stock unit, it will turn back on if you are running hard.

They are pricey and hard to find at times.
Lethal shows thay have on in stock.

Ford Performance Boss 302R/302S Abs Module - M-2353-CA

Ford Performance Boss 302R/302S Abs Module - M-2353-CA

www.lethalperformance.com

Sticker shock warnIng

Actually I thought the same before, But my AED race tune has the TC turned all the way off it will not come back on with the stock ABS module. It sends the same warning lights to the dash that you would get with the 302R/S module.

 

[2012Boss302]

I don't know if it has been done yet but, I have successfully married a S550 PP1 master cylinder to the S197 booster. So far I'm going to give it a hard 90% success. I'm saving the other 10% for February when I go to the track again.

It's basically a bolt in. Yes there are new brake lines to bend and flare and fittings to buy. The hard part was making the adapter for the master cylinder piston. That took me about two full days. My boss, employer not the car, figured out an ingenious way to measure the old master cylinder and transfer that measurement to the adapter.

If anyone here has had a chance to drive a new Mach 1, the brake pedal is now the same as that car. I like a hard pedal so I'm happy with it.

Once I get to work I'll post up a picture of the adapter and measurements along with a list of parts if anyone wants to duplicate it.....

 

[2012Boss302]

Laugh if you want. I made an adapter from an old wheel lock key I had laying around. Just kept rough cutting it with a cutoff wheel until I got it close. Then I had my boss chuck it up in his lathe to flatten the bottom, we put a little chamfer on the edge so it would fit in the pocket in the bottom of the master cylinder piston. The piston is not flat. I left it deep so it would capture the pushrod inside the booster.

I cut the key down to 2.450 inches total length. The empty space between the top of the key to the bottom of the key is 1.415 inches. This make the actual space used to take up the gap 1.035 inches. I was going for a 0.020-0.030 gap between the booster pushrod and the bottom of the key. I hope that's clear....

I used three 14mm x 1.50 male flare nuts. Two for the S550 master cylinder and one for the ABS pump. I used 5/16" brake line from the rear port on the master cylinder to the ABS pump to plumb the front brakes. I used 1/4" brake line from the front port, farthest from the brake pedal, to the ABS pump. Like I said, one 14mm x 1.50 male flare nut on the master cylinder. Because the 1/4" inch line is just a hair smaller than the fitting, I used electrical heat shrink tubing to center the fitting better on the line. At the ABS pump I used one 12mm x 1.50 male flare nut.

I did use the high dollar hydraulic brake line flaring tool because I had it. It makes perfect double flares.

So far I have 200 street miles on it since I did it. Multiple hard ABS stops from 70 MPH. No drama so far, just an awesome pedal. It may move 1/4-3/8 of an inch during ABS stops. That dead spot at the top is completely gone. My street testing is on Gloc GS-1 pads. I have some R16 on order along with R12 for the rear. That should put me through the windshield.....

Parts List:
2017 Mustang PP1 master cylinder. I bought one for a manual transmission and just blocked off the clutch port because I have a divorced clutch reservoir
6 feet 5/16 steel brake line
6 feet 1/4 steel brake line
Three 14mm x 1.50 male flare nuts
One 12mm x 1.50 flare nut

 

[steveespo]

Laugh if you want. I made an adapter from an old wheel lock key I had laying around. Just kept rough cutting it with a cutoff wheel until I got it close. Then I had my boss chuck it up in his lathe to flatten the bottom, we put a little chamfer on the edge so it would fit in the pocket in the bottom of the master cylinder piston. The piston is not flat. I left it deep so it would capture the pushrod inside the booster.

I cut the key down to 2.450 inches total length. The empty space between the top of the key to the bottom of the key is 1.415 inches. This make the actual space used to take up the gap 1.035 inches. I was going for a 0.020-0.030 gap between the booster pushrod and the bottom of the key. I hope that's clear....

I used three 14mm x 1.50 male flare nuts. Two for the S550 master cylinder and one for the ABS pump. I used 5/16" brake line from the rear port on the master cylinder to the ABS pump to plumb the front brakes. I used 1/4" brake line from the front port, farthest from the brake pedal, to the ABS pump. Like I said, one 14mm x 1.50 male flare nut on the master cylinder. Because the 1/4" inch line is just a hair smaller than the fitting, I used electrical heat shrink tubing to center the fitting better on the line. At the ABS pump I used one 12mm x 1.50 male flare nut.

I did use the high dollar hydraulic brake line flaring tool because I had it. It makes perfect double flares.

So far I have 200 street miles on it since I did it. Multiple hard ABS stops from 70 MPH. No drama so far, just an awesome pedal. It may move 1/4-3/8 of an inch during ABS stops. That dead spot at the top is completely gone. My street testing is on Gloc GS-1 pads. I have some R16 on order along with R12 for the rear. That should put me through the windshield.....

Parts List:
2017 Mustang PP1 master cylinder. I bought one for a manual transmission and just blocked off the clutch port because I have a divorced clutch reservoir
6 feet 5/16 steel brake line
6 feet 1/4 steel brake line
Three 14mm x 1.50 male flare nuts
One 12mm x 1.50 flare nut

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View attachment 91492

Good job, I would have just installed a 2015-17 pedal box into the car to maintain compatibility but what you did seems to work. This is of course the solution to pedal feel issue. We looked at doing the conversion, but the new owner of my old car decided to go with an AP caliper setup to solve the issues.

 

[2012Boss302]

I would have just installed a 2015-17 pedal box into the car

I did originally buy a booster and quickly found out it wouldn't bolt in. Do you recall how much a pedal box costs and will it bolt into the S197??

 

[steveespo]

I did originally buy a booster and quickly found out it wouldn't bolt in. Do you recall how much a pedal box costs and will it bolt into the S197??

Booster will fit but to get it in you have to roll the engine to the passenger side and slightly enlarge the mounting hole pattern. Once the booster is in place it clears the cylinder head. I bought a pedal assembly brand new but you can get take outs on ebay for $250 or so. the studs sandwich the firewall and you have to add rivnuts for the front mount of the later pedal box.

 

[Vettel-ish]

Way too many smart people on this forum. Nice work coming up with solutions guys. Might have to buy my 2011 back now lol

 

[EF1]

Way too many smart people on this forum. Nice work coming up with solutions guys. Might have to buy my 2011 back now lol

You should not have sold it.

 

[EF1]

But I see why you did.

 

[Vettel-ish]

You should not have sold it.

Went to a good home and is getting loved.

 

[Alex_murrica]

Booster will fit but to get it in you have to roll the engine to the passenger side and slightly enlarge the mounting hole pattern. Once the booster is in place it clears the cylinder head. I bought a pedal assembly brand new but you can get take outs on ebay for $250 or so. the studs sandwich the firewall and you have to add rivnuts for the front mount of the later pedal box.

Thank you for sharing your insight before I installed my engine, I will be doing this.

Question: would it not be simpler to just use a bolt through the fire wall with a nut on the inside to hold the pedal box?

 

[steveespo]

Thank you for sharing your insight before I installed my engine, I will be doing this.

Question: would it not be simpler to just use a bolt through the fire wall with a nut on the inside to hold the pedal box?

Booster has studs that pass through the firewall and marry to the pedal support, nuts secure it all together. There are additional mounting bolts that secure the back end of the pedal support (Closest to the driver) to the car inside. These mount points are different from S197 to S550 so adding some rivnuts to accept the bolts in the correct location is needed. See picture of S550 pedal assembly, you can see the 4 vertical mount holes for the booster studs and two of the 4 horizontal holes, the other two are by the clutch location. These holes are over size so there is a little tolerance for locating the added rivnuts or other mounting nuts you may use.