S197 help/suggestions

[Vettel-ish]

S197 platform is so underrated. Very capable cars when done right.

Did you ever see Billy Johnson simple S197 articale? That might be worth searching for.

Its the reason I got my first 197.

 

[MX621]

If you've installed the PHB relocation brackets that are part of that kit then you've significantly lowered the rear roll center, further adding to your understeer. I have no personal experience with that kit but my understanding is that some people who run it have increased their rear spring rates to compensate for the lower rear roll center. Hopefully others with direct experience will chime in.

So just has the lower/upper control arms, amd the relocation brackets from Kenny brown. There PHB relocation brackets and spherical PHB are back ordered. Just has a typical adjustable PHB at oem location on the car now

 

[Mad Hatter]

Just think, with a some good suspension, brake and engine mods, the S197 can keep up to Porsche GT4's that are also race prepped. Not the Clubsports though... thats in a whole different category.... But then again, for the price of a clubsport you could buy/prep/race a 1/2 dozen S197 cars..... With a healthy tire budget!!

 

[Dave_W]

Try to break the corner down into thirds - corner entry / braking and increasing steering angle, mid-corner / steady-state or "rolling the apex", and corner exit / increasing throttle and unwinding steering.

Is the understeer in all phases, or is it mostly in one? Corner entry and exit phases have weight transfer happening, so they can be tuned with shocks, but steady-state is basically springs & ARBs (and roll centers if you can adjust them). As many have said above, corner entry balance can also be "tuned" with trail braking. Get the steady-state balance how you like it first, then work on exit & entry using shock damping and driving style.

 

[steveespo]

Weight distribution. Try and eliminate as much weight from driver seat back forward. Then if necessary for classing ballast that weight in the spare tire well centered or right biased. You will be surprised how much metal can be trimmed, how many unused bolts can be removed. Do you have Optic Armor windshield and back glass? If not there is a good 20lbs that is up high, 12 which is forward. Taking the static load off the front tires will help them not be overwhelmed when weight transfers forward during braking and cornering. I would not soften the front springs any more, I found that the cars like front rate. What is your toe setting? 1/16" toe out on each side will help with turn in feel and responsiveness.
More front aero, a stiffer/larger splitter within the rules that is attached to the subframe in 4 places in addition to the splitter rods. And add AJ Hartman dive planes. They are good cars, have you considered adding some power back? If you run Bridgestone RE-71RS tires you can be at 340 Average HP at your current weight, lighten it up 20 lbs and you are 338 on the small section tire (275). That is with out the aero adds up front. With them you are at 320 Average @3520. Power is the strength of a Mustang, and at those levels you definitely have plenty of rear grip.
Best of luck.
Steve

 

[blacksheep-1]

So just has the lower/upper control arms, amd the relocation brackets from Kenny brown. There PHB relocation brackets and spherical PHB are back ordered. Just has a typical adjustable PHB at oem location on the car now

Nothing wrong with that.

 

[MX621]

Weight distribution. Try and eliminate as much weight from driver seat back forward. Then if necessary for classing ballast that weight in the spare tire well centered or right biased. You will be surprised how much metal can be trimmed, how many unused bolts can be removed. Do you have Optic Armor windshield and back glass? If not there is a good 20lbs that is up high, 12 which is forward. Taking the static load off the front tires will help them not be overwhelmed when weight transfers forward during braking and cornering. I would not soften the front springs any more, I found that the cars like front rate. What is your toe setting? 1/16" toe out on each side will help with turn in feel and responsiveness.
More front aero, a stiffer/larger splitter within the rules that is attached to the subframe in 4 places in addition to the splitter rods. And add AJ Hartman dive planes. They are good cars, have you considered adding some power back? If you run Bridgestone RE-71RS tires you can be at 340 Average HP at your current weight, lighten it up 20 lbs and you are 338 on the small section tire (275). That is with out the aero adds up front. With them you are at 320 Average @3520. Power is the strength of a Mustang, and at those levels you definitely have plenty of rear grip.
Best of luck.
Steve

Yea there is Deff some low hanging fruit for weight. Front and rear glass.
I’m not sure a re-71rs would hang in for a 30min race. The Hoosiers did really well and still had late race pace. I do have a 357avrg tune for Toyo RR’s that I Havnt tried yet. I’d imagine potentially faster single lap pace vs 309 average and Hoosiers. But not confident a RR won’t fall off badly in a 30min race as well. The front Deff needs a better splitter which I plan on doing as well as spats. The dive planes would be a .3 penalty to the weight/lower number

 

[steveespo]

Yea there is Deff some low hanging fruit for weight. Front and rear glass.
I’m not sure a re-71rs would hang in for a 30min race. The Hoosiers did really well and still had late race pace. I do have a 357avrg tune for Toyo RR’s that I Havnt tried yet. I’d imagine potentially faster single lap pace vs 309 average and Hoosiers. But not confident a RR won’t fall off badly in a 30min race as well. The front Deff needs a better splitter which I plan on doing as well as spats. The dive planes would be a .3 penalty to the weight/lower number

The RE71s are better than the Toyos which fall off in 3-4 laps. AER guys use the RE-71RS and are real fast. Shave them to 5/32" to get maximum tread stability, doesn't hurt life as they will wear a long time. More power will probably make it faster depending on the tracks, but at VIR, Watkins, Road Atlanta, even Lime Rock power will gain lap time.

 

[MX621]

The RE71s are better than the Toyos which fall off in 3-4 laps. AER guys use the RE-71RS and are real fast. Shave them to 5/32" to get maximum tread stability, doesn't hurt life as they will wear a long time. More power will probably make it faster depending on the tracks, but at VIR, Watkins, Road Atlanta, even Lime Rock power will gain lap time.

Interesting. As I’ve always herd/read re-71rs was
More of sprint tire

 

[steveespo]

Interesting. As I’ve always herd/read re-71rs was
More of sprint tire

Tire management is all part of it. What tracks do you run? @blacksheep-1 may have some RE-71 insight as well.
Gotta make Mustangs faster in all classes, that's what we do at TMO.

 

[MX621]

Njmp, lrp, summit, glen are the main ones local to me

 

[Fabman]

If you've installed the PHB relocation brackets that are part of that kit then you've significantly lowered the rear roll center, further adding to your understeer. I have no personal experience with that kit but my understanding is that some people who run it have increased their rear spring rates to compensate for the lower rear roll center. Hopefully others with direct experience will chime in.

Yes, Kenny Brown uses 400# springs/no bar with this setup.

 

[Fabman]

So just has the lower/upper control arms, amd the relocation brackets from Kenny brown. There PHB relocation brackets and spherical PHB are back ordered. Just has a typical adjustable PHB at oem location on the car now

You are probably not going to like the lower roll center the panhard relo kit gives you, it will make understeer worse.
You'll need to spring up quite a bit to balance that out.

 

[SMGDHG]

You are probably not going to like the lower roll center the panhard relo kit gives you, it will make understeer worse.
You'll need to spring up quite a bit to balance that out.

^^ I 2nd this

 

[Mad Hatter]

If not going for a Watts.... then I would keep the original PB brackets. Ford did do a lot of things right on these cars.

edit... I guess I 3rd it!

 

[blacksheep-1]

I'm kinda busy right now, did I ask what tires you are running and what was the hot pressures? In case I haven't already asked.

 

[MX621]

I'm kinda busy right now, did I ask what tires you are running and what was the hot pressures? In case I haven't already asked.

I think you did my mistake. 275/35/18 Hoosier R7. 38-39 target hot. Was initially over 40+ per Hoosiers recommendation on a 3000lb+ car. But speaking to other Hoosier users I went lower. This is my first time on them. Always raced a toyoRR previously. Very open to suggestions/tips

 

[Fabman]

I think you did my mistake. 275/35/18 Hoosier R7. 38-39 target hot. Was initially over 40+ per Hoosiers recommendation on a 3000lb+ car. But speaking to other Hoosier users I went lower. This is my first time on them. Always raced a toyoRR previously. Very open to suggestions/tips

I was like that too….following the Hoosier recommendations….after all, they made the tire, they should know right? Nope. Blacksheep knows.
You can run them waaaaay softer. He’ll chime in soon. Do exactly what he says.

 

[steveespo]

I think you did my mistake. 275/35/18 Hoosier R7. 38-39 target hot. Was initially over 40+ per Hoosiers recommendation on a 3000lb+ car. But speaking to other Hoosier users I went lower. This is my first time on them. Always raced a toyoRR previously. Very open to suggestions/tips

Like my doctor says, take 5 off. Or 7. Run a warmup session at 32 cold, then bleed to 32 Hot.

 

[SMGDHG]

I was like that too….following the Hoosier recommendations….after all, they made the tire, they should know right? Nope. Blacksheep knows.
You can run them waaaaay softer. He’ll chime in soon. Do exactly what he says.

Eagerly waiting for @blacksheep-1 reply since I’m about to run Hoosiers…..where’d he go?!