No rear sway bar

[blacksheep-1]

Thanks for the info. Looking back on this endeavor I think removing my RSB and driving the car in that configuration for quite some time turned out to be excellent learning experience in that it allowed for a better understanding of the cars roll characteristics during various driving situations. In short, I feel I now "know" the car better.

Going forward, now that I have what I feel is the proper RSB on the car I can better utilize the available damper adjustment range I have at my disposal to fine tune for whatever track I find myself on in the future.

One thing is for certain though, I'm very glad I went with dampers that are double adjustable and have a wide range of settings despite the initial pain I felt to my wallet when I first bought them. Now I only wish the dampers were adjustable from the drivers seat but I guess we can't have it all

Why? so you could adjust yourself out of the ball park while you're on the track?..lol

 

[further]

I tried the 18 mm RSB at VIR with relatively soft springs (T). The back was squirly as all get out, and it still over steered. Dropped rear tire pressure and rear shock rebound as well. I put the stock back on. I won't try it again until I go with stiffer springs, and I will duly update.

 

[302 Hi Pro]

I run the T springs with with the KB rear suspension setup, changed out the rear diff housing bush and installed a Steeda adjustable UCA.

I have no RSB, but was thinking about using the lighter 18mm unit. Anyone know if the 18 mm RSB will clear the KB PB & Brace brackets?



Updated pic, FRPP Forged Wheels

 

[JScheier]

Now I only wish the dampers were adjustable from the drivers seat but I guess we can't have it all

Call Brian at http://www.hancheyvehicletech.com/ . He's got technology to do just that

 

[further]

I run the T springs with with the KB rear suspension setup, changed out the rear diff housing bush and installed a Steeda adjustable UCA.

I have no RSB, but was thinking about using the lighter 18mm unit. Anyone know if the 18 mm RSB will clear the KB PB & Brace brackets?



Updated pic, FRPP Forged Wheels

It'll squeeze in between the LCA relocation brackets and the shocks. See that little groove?
how hard was the Steeda UCA? I've got one coming.

 

[302 Hi Pro]

It'll squeeze in between the LCA relocation brackets and the shocks. See that little groove?
how hard was the Steeda UCA? I've got one coming.

The Steeda adjustable UCA was easy to install. It is also very easy to adjust on car. I also replaced the upper axle housing Bush with the one they have. It's a 5 piece bushing, and it is worth replacing IMO. This set up changed the feel of the rear axle and really improved the throttle control of the oversteer condition. When she starts to roll I can maintain and increase throttle and to my surprise, she straightens right up. I should also say that the improvements are a result of all the changes I made in July 2014.

The suspension changes were: Koni Sports, UCA, and axle housing bush. Also, I began the mods to be able to move and/or reposition the rear axle housing more to the rear. When installing LCA relo brackets with stock length LCA's, it pulls the axle forward and put tension on the DS slip joint. I needed to increase DS slip joint play and maintain an acceptable pinion angle, so I lengthened the LCA's and the UCA, this moved the rear axle back to center the rear wheels in the wheel wells.

Bushing remove, pressed out with a little to much heat.



New bush with stock sleeve cleaned up, shop tip: use a ton of energy suspension on all pieces of the bush and sleeve.



Assembled bushing



This is the install method that I used

 

[further]

The Steeda adjustable UCA was easy to install. It is also very easy to adjust on car. I also replaced the upper axle housing Bush with the one they have. It's a 5 piece bushing, and it is worth replacing IMO. This set up changed the feel of the rear axle and really improved the throttle control of the oversteer condition. When she starts to roll I can maintain and increase throttle and to my surprise, she straightens right up. I should also say that the improvements are a result of all the changes I made in July 2014.

The suspension changes were: Koni Sports, UCA, and axle housing bush. Also, I began the mods to be able to move and/or reposition the rear axle housing more to the rear. When installing LCA relo brackets with stock length LCA's, it pulls the axle forward and put tension on the DS slip joint. I needed to increase DS slip joint play and maintain an acceptable pinion angle, so I lengthened the LCA's and the UCA, this moved the rear axle back to center the rear wheels in the wheel wells.

Bushing remove, pressed out with a little to much heat.



New bush with stock sleeve cleaned up, shop tip: use a ton of energy suspension on all pieces of the bush and sleeve.



Assembled bushing



This is the install method that I used

Thanks bud. Good luck with the rear sway.

 

[WinterSucks]

Call Brian at http://www.hancheyvehicletech.com/ . He's got technology to do just that

Those are very nice! You definitely get what you pay for. I am just thinking of a few servos and a nice interface lol. The most advanced I would get is to use a PIC to do the PWM signals perfectly.

 

[blacksheep-1]

I tried the 18 mm RSB at VIR with relatively soft springs (T). The back was squirly as all get out, and it still over steered. Dropped rear tire pressure and rear shock rebound as well. I put the stock back on. I won't try it again until I go with stiffer springs, and I will duly update.

Actually that should have had the opposite effect, I assume you mean "soften" the rebound? This is also one of the traps you can set for yourself, if you've done everything to "stick" the back half of the car, it's time to free up the front, because it sounds like the front is stuck like glue, once the car gets to a neutral balance, then work on both ends. A short term solution to this (or to help find out what is going on) is to jack up front air pressure for a few laps. Also, the front shocks should be "soft" in compression. As an example....

Here's a fox body that I've built, it has an IRS in it, cage, k-member and coil overs, as you can see the car "pushes" in the center of the corner.....



Here's anothe rpic of the car in a different corner, still pushing at center...



This is a pic immediatley following pisc #1, note that not only did I miss the cone but that once the car started to transition to a rearward weight, the front of the car gained traction and the car launched....



Here's another pic of the car accelerating, notice how high the front end is as the car accelerates.



So how do you fix this? (we can't run adjustable shocks, but you can) the best way would be to take some dive out of the car in the center of the corner by raising compression. In a short, fast autocross course the car is dumping it's weight on that right front "en mass" slowing this rate of dumping would most likely allow the car's suspension to handle the increasing weight and make the car turn. If that didn't work, I would up the front spring rate and then loosen the rear of the car. Increasing the front bar size would just "unhook" the front end even worse although it might help a little, you would see less overall grip, which I don't want, the front of the car is actually sticking too good...then pushing. In your case, I believe the same thing is happening to the rear of your car, basically , you are overwhelming the suspension, you've already done bar and shock adjustments so now it's time to loosen the front in order to let the car manage it's rear bite.

 

[further]

Actually that should have had the opposite effect, I assume you mean "soften" the rebound? This is also one of the traps you can set for yourself, if you've done everything to "stick" the back half of the car, it's time to free up the front, because it sounds like the front is stuck like glue, once the car gets to a neutral balance, then work on both ends. A short term solution to this (or to help find out what is going on) is to jack up front air pressure for a few laps. Also, the front shocks should be "soft" in compression. As an example....

Here's a fox body that I've built, it has an IRS in it, cage, k-member and coil overs, as you can see the car "pushes" in the center of the corner.....



Here's anothe rpic of the car in a different corner, still pushing at center...



This is a pic immediatley following pisc #1, note that not only did I miss the cone but that once the car started to transition to a rearward weight, the front of the car gained traction and the car launched....



Here's another pic of the car accelerating, notice how high the front end is as the car accelerates.



So how do you fix this? (we can't run adjustable shocks, but you can) the best way would be to take some dive out of the car in the center of the corner by raising compression. In a short, fast autocross course the car is dumping it's weight on that right front "en mass" slowing this rate of dumping would most likely allow the car's suspension to handle the increasing weight and make the car turn. If that didn't work, I would up the front spring rate and then loosen the rear of the car. Increasing the front bar size would just "unhook" the front end even worse although it might help a little, you would see less overall grip, which I don't want, the front of the car is actually sticking too good...then pushing. In your case, I believe the same thing is happening to the rear of your car, basically , you are overwhelming the suspension, you've already done bar and shock adjustments so now it's time to loosen the front in order to let the car manage it's rear bite.

Thanks for the comments.

The smaller rear sway did help, just not that much IMO (for my setup). I've already got my front maxed with koni yellows and a giant Strano front sway bar. It just felt real floaty and rolly and didn't inspire confidence on the uphill Esses at VIR. Did anybody see that Viper go airborne over turn 8 on the Esses during the Tudor race? Perhaps my take was wrong, but I'm going with my gut when dealing with dangerous sections of the course.

I've already ordered some new springs and they just arrived. The fronts are 350#. They'll go on after I come back from VIR this weekend. So will the smaller RSB.

 

[2013dibgt]

I have no RSB, but was thinking about using the lighter 18mm unit. Anyone know if the 18 mm RSB will clear the KB PB & Brace brackets?

I don't have any experience with the KB PB & Brace but in looking at your pics and based on my recent experience installing the 18mm RSB I would put my money on the 18mm bar NOT fitting your configuration. If you look at the pics I posted a few pages back on the fitment of the 20mm RSB on my car which is essentially the same fitment as the 18mm bar there isn't a whole lot of room between the Relo Brackets and the RSB mounting point and in your pics it looks like its going to be tight at best but this is just my humble opinion.

The bar is certainly cheap enough to take the plunge as an experiment and if it doesn't work I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to sell if need be.

 

[302 Hi Pro]

I don't have any experience with the KB PB & Brace but in looking at your pics and based on my recent experience installing the 18mm RSB I would put my money on the 18mm bar NOT fitting your configuration. If you look at the pics I posted a few pages back on the fitment of the 20mm RSB on my car which is essentially the same fitment as the 18mm bar there isn't a whole lot of room between the Relo Brackets and the RSB mounting point and in your pics it looks like its going to be tight at best but this is just my humble opinion.

The bar is certainly cheap enough to take the plunge as an experiment and if it doesn't work I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to sell if need be.

Thanks 2013dibgt, I appreciate your thoughts and advice.
Hi Pro

 

[VoodooBoss]

Member YoPauly has the full KB setup and does not run a rear sway bar on a staggered fitment. Nitto NT01's F275 & R305.

 

[Dig-It]

I couldn't get a sway bar to fit around the relo brackets when I was running the KB suspension.

 

[further]

Looks like I led you astray. Sorry bud. My WL relos have a notch cut out to allow for the sway bar. You could traded your relos for some or just beef up the springs.

 

[302 Hi Pro]

Good information, thank you all. I'm thinking about different springs at this point.

Dave

 

[Tri-bar]

OK FWIW just be aware of the trap you've possibly set for yourself, if you remove the rear bar, and it's induced a push on entry, try going to a shock adjustment to get the nose to stick on entry. A lot of guys will have a loose (or push) condition, so they will stick that end of the car, instead , try to unstick the other end instead, if you don't, you can end up with a car that is completely tight.

No trap. With those springs that's what the car needed. My Buddy's 07 runs the same set up but with Strano front sway. He gets to set his in the middle. Why? The Strano bar is thicker we think than the Eibach. I tried to un-stick the rear, The only way to get it plant, and not feel floaty, 1/2 inch rear sway bar. I can push it as hard as I like and it just sticks. Not tight at all. Corner speeds are better than they where before. I can roll onto the power before the apex and be full throttle at corner exit.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Maybe so but just remember the old saying " slow cars always handle"

 

[Tri-bar]

Maybe so but just remember the old saying " slow cars always handle"

Slow car ? I know how my car works and what it needs. Not by racing it around a freeway on ramp or on the street. I drive my cars. I have even Won a SCCA Club Championship In Solo 2 ESP with a New 2005 Mustang GT I built myself in 2005. I never stop trying to make things better. Lap times don't lie. If my lap times get better after a change I have made. Even one the defies The norm on a set up "Rules". I will try it.. Just because you make the front sway bar stiffer, does not automatically make the car tight up front. You try something and test it. If it doesn't work, change it back to what worked before, Right ? That's what I do.

Here's me testing my "Slow" car.
Before the front sway bar setting change: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VMDmQ7fw98&list=UUsocMR37ylkpT1C0uAolCSw

 

[blacksheep-1]

Slow car ? I know how my car works and what it needs. Not by racing it around a freeway on ramp or on the street. I drive my cars. I have even Won a SCCA Club Championship In Solo 2 ESP with a New 2005 Mustang GT I built myself in 2005. I never stop trying to make things better. Lap times don't lie. If my lap times get better after a change I have made. Even one the defies The norm on a set up "Rules". I will try it.. Just because you make the front sway bar stiffer, does not automatically make the car tight up front. You try something and test it. If it doesn't work, change it back to what worked before, Right ? That's what I do.

Here's me testing my "Slow" car.
Before the front sway bar setting change: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VMDmQ7fw98&list=UUsocMR37ylkpT1C0uAolCSw

No one implied your car was slow I was referencing my statement about guys who continually tighten their car up and when all is said and done they have car that is so tight it won't come off the corners and hence, will not carry enough straightaway speed into the next corner.